Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 38

Thread: emissions

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    binbrook ont.
    Posts
    233
    Time Online: 3 Days 21 Hrs 13 Mins 36 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 19 Secs
    Rep Power
    9

    emissions

    it failed!! the hard part is not knowing why!i drive a 88 toyota forrunner.2.4 liter 4banger.first its a 2.4liter the report shows 2.2 .the test shows a fail at hcppm limit 105 reading 121 fail co.58 limit reading .33 pass noppm 1179 limit reading 652 pass rpm at 1688 dilution 9.6 above tested at asm2525 curb idle hcppm limit 200 reading 175 pass, co .1.00limit .93 pass rpm 904 dilution 7.8 i might as whell try to read a doctors report. is this a bad fail can i just change the oil put in some quick pass or octain boost and pass? when i change the hcppm reading will it change the others. it failed because of hcppm reading of 121 , if the person entered a 2.2 liter engine insread of the 2.4 will that mess it up? any help would be apreciated {i hate this test bought an 88 should have picked up a 87}
    Bryn; 86 chev k5 blazer

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    oakville
    Posts
    60
    Time Online: 5 Days 12 Hrs 40 Mins 55 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 27 Secs
    Rep Power
    9
    It does look like the cat is not working and there may be other factors such as an EGR or EGR passages that are blocked or semi obstructed. I think the best thing to do might be have a diagnosis done and then at least you have a better idea yourself what is causing the failure.

    Take what I have written how you like it, I have been a member of this forum for only a short bit but every other forum i have ever been on has had guys or gals that thought they understood the drive clean program and always told people to put cats on everything that failed. I am not looking to step on anyones feet, but I am a Drive Clean inspector with a very good knowlege of the repair program as well. I am just trying to help out a fellow jeeper with a problem


    Jeff

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    barrie
    Posts
    211
    Time Online: 3 Wks 6 Days 8 Hrs 12 Mins 45 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 2 Mins 15 Secs
    Rep Power
    8
    if its 2.4 or a 2.2 your hc limit should be below 100ppm, i slow o2 sendor could cause this as well as a tune up
    when was the last time u had a tube up? what grade or oil are yu running? when was your last oil change?
    my quick guess would be to
    tune up (plugs wires capr rotor)
    change oil, if u run 5w20 change to 10w30
    change pre cat o2 senso
    and last but not least, take off a main vaccum line(brake booster) rev engine to about 2500 rpm and slowly suck up a cup of water( dip hose in and take it out, repedativley)
    what this will do is steam clean the cylinders and remove any carbon
    i would be willing to bet that it will pass then
    and relatively cheap,
    now as the person above me stated a fresh cat could remedy the situation, but if the car is dumping fuel in, this will eventually burn this cat out as well,
    Last edited by gof28; 01-12-2010 at 06:34 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    simcoe ont
    Posts
    33
    Time Online: 16 Hrs 17 Mins 57 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 3 Secs
    Rep Power
    9
    hc ppm is hydrocarbons ...(raw fuel) meaning that its running somewhat rich....check for tune up first ...i strongly dissagree with "guaranteed to pass" it is absolute crap!!!!! read the fine print on the box, it does state that for a refund all emissions related parts must be working propperly in order to recieve refund ..which i interpret it as if you were going to pass you didn't need to spend 30 buck on methly hydrate in the first place (that will increase nox by the way " chect for a rich run issue first bud

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    simcoe ont
    Posts
    33
    Time Online: 16 Hrs 17 Mins 57 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 3 Secs
    Rep Power
    9
    sorry double post
    Last edited by Tater; 01-12-2010 at 07:32 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    5,031
    Time Online: N/A
    Avg. Time Online: N/A
    Rep Power
    0
    octain boost and premium fuel will make hc worse in a low compresion engine.

    i would
    1 add a ground from the frame to the engine block (toyotas are famous for bad grounding)
    2 make sure your plugs and wires are recent.
    3 run a full can of seafoam into the engine (dont put it into the crakcase like the directions say)
    4 fill the tank with regular gas and add 2l of methal hydrate (gas line antifreeze)it will lower your hc a few points.
    5 put on a new o2 sensor if you havnt in the last 3 years
    6 new air filter

    it will pas 100% if you do those things you might even be able to skip the seafoam

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Burlington
    Posts
    5,009
    Time Online: 1 Mth 3 Wks 5 Days 8 Hrs 29 Mins 23 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 4 Mins 38 Secs
    Rep Power
    18
    ... Sniff, sniff... did someone say Drive Clean?

    Let's clean up that report of yours;

    Test Results:.....40kp/h..............Curb Idle
    .....................Reading/Limit.......Reading/Limit
    HC................. 121 / 105..............175 / 200
    CO................. .33 / .58 .............. .93/1.00
    NOx................ 652 / 1179........... BLANK

    So you only failed on 1 portion, and not by much. Not bad for a 22 year old vehicle, if you ask me.

    First, you're correct in that the measured Hydrocarbons, which (also correct) is unburnt fuel, is too high. This indicates an incomplete burn. If you have the original cat on it, then I can say with 99.5% certainty if you replaced it you'd pass no problem. The EGR (if equipped, I think it is) is working fine or your NOx level would be through the roof. If your O2 is dead or lazy (thanks gof!) the computer will kick to safe maps and add extra fuel too.

    You've got a few options to try. If you have or can buy a cheap NEEDLE type multimeter (CT puts 'em on sale for like $4.99), there is a diagnostic port near your battery that has the OXY or OX on the port. That is the reading directly from the O2. You can use a NEEDLE type (not digital) meter and set it to the 2V range. Hold your engine at 2500 for 3 minutes, and see if the needle sweeps 0-1V. If it does, just change the cat and go. If not, I can help with further diagnosis.

    If it were mine, I'd pay the $100 and weld in a fresh cat. Then I'd go back to the test facility and demand they retest the truck for free because they put the wrong engine size in. With the fresh cat, it'll pass Heck, if you want, go back with a SUPER HOT engine and demand a retest as is. You might get lucky.
    ....-Noltz
    '91 Frankenheep Edition. 4.0, 4" BDS, Richmond 8.8, 35" KM2's, Titan 12k, ... gone.
    '95 4Runner SR5. Air-Lift bags, OBA & 8K Winch, DD... gone.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Bowmanville
    Posts
    132
    Time Online: 1 Wk 4 Days 11 Hrs 41 Mins 10 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 56 Secs
    Rep Power
    9
    Looks to me that the dilution is also wrong should be higher numbers closer to 14.7:1 which it perfect air fuel ratio.Check the air filter and air box,hope you don't have a mouse making a winter home in there lol.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    binbrook ont.
    Posts
    233
    Time Online: 3 Days 21 Hrs 13 Mins 36 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 19 Secs
    Rep Power
    9
    wow this forum is fast!!!!!!! itshard on fuel, 300k per tank. always has been. i want to get it tuned up but i dont have a garage that i feel good about. any ideas. i fix everything i can because i always get the line , leave it with us maybe tomorrow we can squeese it in.thanks Bryn

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    binbrook ont.
    Posts
    233
    Time Online: 3 Days 21 Hrs 13 Mins 36 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 19 Secs
    Rep Power
    9
    100.00 cat do they exist?will a cat change my fuel consumption or performance? ime gone for a few days ille check the site later!!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Dornoch, ONT, CA
    Posts
    305
    Time Online: 3 Wks 14 Hrs 35 Mins 38 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 1 Min 46 Secs
    Rep Power
    15
    universal cat at ct or parts source

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Burlington
    Posts
    5,009
    Time Online: 1 Mth 3 Wks 5 Days 8 Hrs 29 Mins 23 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 4 Mins 38 Secs
    Rep Power
    18
    The dilution is the ambient dilution, not the air/fuel mix. It's a compensation number factored in by the OTU. If the number is really high, it indicates there's a small leak in the exhaust system and ambient air is being drawn in.

    It's an anti-cheating test the programmers put in to prevent unscrupulous inspectors from trying and injecting air into the exhaust to push down the emissions numbers.

    Headhunter is right - CTC or PS has universals for $99. Nearly any exhaust shop will weld one in for $200. If there's any change in performance or economy, it will be in your favour.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    simcoe ont
    Posts
    33
    Time Online: 16 Hrs 17 Mins 57 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 3 Secs
    Rep Power
    9
    i do agree with you mostly noltz my only concern is that the cat is just a bandaid and wont affect mileage much.... be curious to have the cat diagnosed (pre and post) sniff . if the plugs are toast wouldn't be long before the new cat gets messed ...just my opinion....
    but to get thru this year a cat will pass it

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Guelph, Ontario
    Posts
    4,733
    My Mood
    Paranoid
    Time Online: 1 Wk 5 Days 23 Hrs 45 Mins 30 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 1 Min 4 Secs
    Rep Power
    18
    Bad fuel economy could be an O2 sensor. I know when I swapped mine out on my various vehicles (way too many over the years!) it always seemed to help. Not a huge gain, but it did make a difference. On one vehicle (my 91 4.0 XJ) it went up nearly 2 mpg! On another vehicle, (1994 XJ) it didn't make much of a difference in the MPG, but did add about 20-30 kms per tank.

    If your cat is bad, I'd change the O2 sensor at the same time. It's not cheap, but as was said earlier it can save your new cat from getting fried.

    HTH!

    If I was a Jeep, they'd have parted me out a LONG time ago.

    I'm a proud member of SOXJA ask me why!

    Krawlerz team member too!

    OF4WD Member # 5027

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    barrie
    Posts
    211
    Time Online: 3 Wks 6 Days 8 Hrs 12 Mins 45 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 2 Mins 15 Secs
    Rep Power
    8
    seriousll people if u dont know about emissions repair please stop giving advice!!!!
    your cat could be a problem but cats do not just die!!!! something would cause the cat to die ie to much fuel being dumped in, it wont be your egr as your knox are low,
    things that can cause to much fuel
    lazy or dead o2
    coolant temp sensor,
    igniton timing,
    bad input from a sensor is air intake, coolnt temp, ass air flow or map sensor.
    pulgs wire, cap rotor,
    please just try this

    replace cap rotor, wires plugs, o2 sensor, , set the ignition timing and then take the pcv line off and SLOWLY let it suck some water up (high rpm and with engine hot)
    now when i say slowly i mean slow, a timmies cup should take about 3 min to empty, so dont put the hose in the cup just let the hose sit just above the water line and let it suck it up, this will steam clean any carbon deposits in your cylinder,
    again fresh oil( i know people say oil change wont do anyting) wrong if u are running 520 and the motor has lots of km run 5w30 , if the oil has not been changed in awhile there may be raw fuel mixed in the oil
    all of this shouldnt cost you more that 240-250

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    ontario's west coast
    Posts
    3,943
    Time Online: 7 Mths 4 Days 31 Mins 46 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 17 Mins 39 Secs
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by gof28 View Post
    seriousll people if u dont know about emissions repair please stop giving advice!!!!
    welcome to jeepkings newbie! lol.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Burlington
    Posts
    5,009
    Time Online: 1 Mth 3 Wks 5 Days 8 Hrs 29 Mins 23 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 4 Mins 38 Secs
    Rep Power
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by Billybong View Post
    welcome to jeepkings newbie! lol.
    Nice.

    Seriously... I've been doing this a long time. He can spend $250 and MIGHT pass, or get a $100 replacement for that 22 year old cat and definitely pass. There might be an underlying engine condition, but on a Toyota engine that's damn rare. The only issue gof mentioned that I'd say plausible is the ignition timing, but if the cat was working you'd never see it at the tailpipe... so again, why is the cat allowing this extra fuel to go unburnt? For the paultry amount that it failed by, I'd even go to say if he added 1L of Methylhydrate to 30L of fuel he'd probably pass too... but we're after permanent solutions here, not masks.

    And yes, cat's do just die. They get damaged, carboned up, and loose their efficiency over time. That's why most (if not all) vehicles now have catalyst efficiency monitoring in the ECU programming. If cat's didn't fail, there'd be no reason for downstream O2's.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    barrie
    Posts
    211
    Time Online: 3 Wks 6 Days 8 Hrs 12 Mins 45 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 2 Mins 15 Secs
    Rep Power
    8
    first off i am not a newbie, i have been a member for about 8 year! just a different user name.
    second there is a down stream o2 to measure cat efficency, but i said why take a cat out? extra fuel, bumps in road that causes the catalyst to break up, or they get clogged!!!
    cats DO not just die, something wrecks them yes it can be many many different things,i said a cat will probably fix the test but something will eventually take this cat out as well,i have seen well tuned , well maintained cars pass an etest without a cat( yet they were older with higher limits)

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    ontario's west coast
    Posts
    3,943
    Time Online: 7 Mths 4 Days 31 Mins 46 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 17 Mins 39 Secs
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by gof28 View Post
    first off i am not a newbie, i have been a member for about 8 year! just a different user name.
    second there is a down stream o2 to measure cat efficency, but i said why take a cat out? extra fuel, bumps in road that causes the catalyst to break up, or they get clogged!!!
    cats DO not just die, something wrecks them yes it can be many many different things,i said a cat will probably fix the test but something will eventually take this cat out as well,i have seen well tuned , well maintained cars pass an etest without a cat( yet they were older with higher limits)
    i take back the newbie comment then. i appologize.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Burlington
    Posts
    5,009
    Time Online: 1 Mth 3 Wks 5 Days 8 Hrs 29 Mins 23 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 4 Mins 38 Secs
    Rep Power
    18
    I've seen it too... Gutted cats but they still pass. We'll have to agree to disagree here. In theory cats don't just die, but in my not-insignificant experience (especially with Toyota and GM) they fail. I've replaced plenty and they do not come back burnt out. They just fail. Are we hiding a problem with the engine? It's possible, just highly unlikely. We could be sure with a exhaust sample pre and post cat but that's part of the diagnostics that we're trying to avoid.

    Let's let the owner decide what his next step is. I wrote the Drive Clean FAQ for exactly that.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •