View Poll Results: What motor?

Voters
35. You may not vote on this poll
  • bmw m70 v12

    18 51.43%
  • Turbocharged I6 Stroker

    10 28.57%
  • Dont waste your time on either!

    7 20.00%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 23

Thread: Turbo I-6 or v12 for next project???

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ottawa
    Posts
    227
    Time Online: 1 Day 7 Hrs 58 Mins 20 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 6 Secs
    Rep Power
    12

    Turbo I-6 or v12 for next project???

    Looking for the jeepkings opinion on what would be a cool motor from my next jeep. Im going to be starting on the new build this summer and would like to build something unique. Im thinking on running a turbocharged straight 6 or a Bmw v-12 from a 850i. I have the v12 figured out to adapt to a nv4500 trans and the wiring is coming along. In my opinion v12 would be interesting because i have never seen it done before. Although a turbo I6 would be easier but it has been done before. Whats your opinion?

    The preliminary detail for the build are 40s, 609s(front and rear) , 4 link front and back, ori struts blah blah blah

    I want to run a different motor instead of the usual v8.

    I want to hear what you think

    Lucas

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Exeter, Ontario
    Posts
    2,937
    Time Online: 2 Mths 1 Wk 2 Days 14 Hrs 25 Mins 39 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 5 Mins 43 Secs
    Rep Power
    13
    Oh please do the v12!!!! I will shake your hand and buy you a whole case of cookies!
    90 YJ. 4link F/R, 16" SAW Airshocks, 32bolt Beadlocks, D60/14bolt, Full Hydro/Hydroboost L67 3.8SC 700r4 NP231/D300
    02 Yukon XL on 37's DD
    91 Cherokee Juggy scrapped for Greener Grass
    I prefer to build it and not buy it, you see it, I probably made it.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    hamilton/norfolk
    Posts
    21,908
    My Mood
    Twisted
    Time Online: 4 Mths 1 Wk 4 Days 17 Hrs 32 Mins 32 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 10 Mins 49 Secs
    Rep Power
    31
    ^ 10-4 stuff that sucker in and hold onto your butt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayheminc View Post
    Life is good in the republic of bacon
    RETREAD #9

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Barrie ON
    Posts
    417
    Time Online: 3 Days 10 Hrs 33 Mins 41 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 16 Secs
    Rep Power
    11
    If your looking to do a unique project, why would you even consider doing something thats already been done?
    Stuff that 12 under the hood!!!
    Good luck with that build and make sure there is tons of pics
    2009 Subaru WRX STi
    R.I.P. 2001 Grand Cherokee 4.7L
    R.I.P. 94 Grand Cherokee 5.2L

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Hamilton(Waterdown)
    Posts
    1,347
    My Mood
    Lurking
    Time Online: 1 Day 2 Hrs 48 Mins 15 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 5 Secs
    Rep Power
    13
    use your v12 man you alerady have it throw it under the hood make it haul ass!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Burlington
    Posts
    5,009
    Time Online: 1 Mth 3 Wks 5 Days 8 Hrs 29 Mins 23 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 4 Mins 37 Secs
    Rep Power
    18
    12, no contest. Need help with wiring just PM me.
    ....-Noltz
    '91 Frankenheep Edition. 4.0, 4" BDS, Richmond 8.8, 35" KM2's, Titan 12k, ... gone.
    '95 4Runner SR5. Air-Lift bags, OBA & 8K Winch, DD... gone.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    north york.
    Posts
    2,245
    My Mood
    Busy
    Time Online: 2 Mths 4 Wks 17 Hrs 25 Mins 49 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 7 Mins 17 Secs
    Rep Power
    0
    I6 all the way.
    yea its been done before but ive never seen one with ................TWIN TURBO..............

    2 small turbo's divide the manifold in 2 sections or 1 with a diffrent pitch of the vanes feeding another that spools faster

    good luck with whatever your decision.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Beamsville
    Posts
    1,043
    My Mood
    Cool
    Time Online: 3 Mths 4 Days 15 Hrs 57 Mins 30 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 7 Mins 46 Secs
    Rep Power
    16
    Im not familiar with the BMW V12 but I can lny assume it is long. How are you going to squeeze that in there?
    Professional lunatic
    TJ V3.0 in the works "This is only temporary, unless uhhhh..... it works."
    I get confused once numbers get bigger than I can count on my appendages. I'm only good up to 21!
    one quarter turn before something breaks is a good torque spec.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Newmarket
    Posts
    497
    Time Online: 1 Wk 2 Days 14 Hrs 42 Mins 56 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 47 Secs
    Rep Power
    11
    I have a 2JZ from a Supra I was going to put in my Jeep. The Jeep only has 50k on it so its a long way from needing a swap.

    Check them out and let me know if you're interested.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Campbellville
    Posts
    2,330
    Time Online: 5 Mths 19 Hrs 40 Mins 6 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 12 Mins 23 Secs
    Rep Power
    13
    I have a BMW 540i with an M62 in it, and have thought to myself a number of times that it would be a great Jeep engine. Plenty of torque on a flat curve, and it's aluminum (light). It's wide and flat, which would maybe be an OK fit too.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Soon to be Michigan
    Posts
    989
    Time Online: 2 Mths 3 Wks 3 Days 17 Hrs 2 Mins 19 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 6 Mins 57 Secs
    Rep Power
    13
    Solution to the dilemna: Turbocharged V12. Done
    Tri-City Jeep Club

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    beamsville ontario
    Posts
    148
    My Mood
    Bored
    Time Online: 1 Wk 1 Day 13 Hrs 39 Mins 10 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 42 Secs
    Rep Power
    9
    rb26dett, swap problem solved my way, it has awd transmission, its twin turbo and theres lots of support performance wise, and its a straight 6's
    91 cherokee - 33-12.50x15 pro comp's xtreme, 6inch lift custom bumpers rock sliders.
    qouted from craveneh: I have actually shortened mine by about 2 feet. I know I loose power but it was too big , And it still works good

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Selkirk Ontario
    Posts
    5,191
    My Mood
    Confused
    Time Online: 2 Yrs 1 Mth 3 Wks 3 Days 21 Hrs 34 Mins 45 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 1 Hr 4 Mins 31 Secs
    Rep Power
    14
    V12 for sure go for it
    http://www.youtube.com/user/piratexpress1369a
    96 ZJ 4.0L 33x15 BFG'S

    OF4WD#5926

    http://www.jeepkings.ca/forums/showt...sket+placement


    IN LOVING MEMORY ..DAYKOTA
    PIRATES NEVER LEAVE HOME WITHOUT HIS BOAT..

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ottawa
    Posts
    227
    Time Online: 1 Day 7 Hrs 58 Mins 20 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 6 Secs
    Rep Power
    12
    The v12 is almost 30 inches long. A amc v8 (304) is 29ish i believe. It should fit with a little bit of shoe horning. My plans as of now are to run two gm v6 ecu's (dont know how it will work yet) and im going to eliminate the twin distributor set up and run dis ignition. Aswell the v12's throttle bodies are drive by wire so i would be swapping then out with 3 series cable actuated versions. The option of twin turbo in my head but i dont see it happening soon cuz i have a whole other jeep to build. Although a v12 biturbo jeep would be pretty insane.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Exeter, Ontario
    Posts
    2,937
    Time Online: 2 Mths 1 Wk 2 Days 14 Hrs 25 Mins 39 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 5 Mins 43 Secs
    Rep Power
    13
    Ya, never thought of the 2JZ. Those have held 900-1000hp on stock bottems before!!!!!

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Burlington
    Posts
    5,009
    Time Online: 1 Mth 3 Wks 5 Days 8 Hrs 29 Mins 23 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 4 Mins 37 Secs
    Rep Power
    18
    I put some thought into this. I don't know a lot about BMW engines specifically, so if there's an error in my theories please fill me in.

    If I were building this, I'd be using the factory ECU & get a complete ECU harness diagram. It's the most reliable and easiest way to get the engine running properly. If the donor car is still available, I'd swap the throttle controller over too and keep the fly-by-wire TBs. If it's NOT available, then I'd swap out the cable-actuated TBs. And I'd keep the dual-distrib system. It works.

    Now, assuming you DON'T have the donor car, and the ECU is not available.... what to do. I'm trying to think how to get dual ECU's to work. For my thoughts, I'll assume a pair of '98 Grand Prix GT 3.8 ECU's.
    Sensors;
    Coolant temp - should be able to tap the BMW sensor and drop in a GM unit.
    Throttle position - You'll need to modify the 3-series TB's to take GM TPS's
    Mass Airflow - You'll need to duct them inline with the TB's. Also, they're part of the TB assemblies. Is it better to simply adapt 2 GM TB's to the BMW intake?
    MAP - Easy to tap a vacuum source for that. Apparently the 3.8 uses both MAP and MAF
    Idle Air Controller - I'd probably let 1 ECU control the IAC system. If I can spin a 3.8 to almost 2k, it'll idle a 5.0 at 900.
    Crank - the big one. From my manuals;

    Crankshaft (3X/18X) Sensor
    The C(3)I system uses a 4-wire, dual (3X and 18X) Hall Effect switch Crankshaft Position (CKP) sensor. Sensor is located in an aluminum mounting bracket bolted to the front left side of the engine timing chain cover. Sensor contains 2 Hall Effect switches. Each Hall Effect switch alternately grounds and opens individual 12-volt signal circuits to ignition module.
    An air gap separates each Hall Effect switch from a magnet. Two interrupter rings are mounted on the vibration damper and rotate with the crankshaft. The inner interrupter ring containing 3 unevenly-spaced, unequal-width blades. The outer interrupter ring contains 18 evenly-spaced, equal-width blades.
    When the Hall Effect switch is shielded from the magnetic field generated by the magnet by one of the interrupter blades, the 12-volt signal circuit is not grounded by the Hall Effect switch. When each Hall Effect switch is exposed to the magnetic field, the 12-volt signal circuit is grounded by the Hall Effect switch. The constant grounding and opening of these 12-volt signal circuits result in a toggling on-off signal which the ignition module interprets as RPM (engine speed).
    The comparison on these 2 differing signals generated by the 3X and 18X Hall Effect switches enables ignition control module to verify synch pulse accuracy. The 3X and 18X signals are passed on to the PCM which uses these signals to determine crankshaft position, RPM and necessary spark timing adjustments. For additional information, see COMPUTER CONTROLLED COIL IGNITION (C(3)I) under IGNITION SYSTEM.

    Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor
    The CKP sensor utilizes a 4-wire dual Hall Effect switch mounted near vibration damper. Sensor monitors vibration damper position (crankshaft position) and sends signals to ignition control module, which passes these signals on to the PCM. These signals provide PCM with a TDC position reference for each piston, as well as supplying an engine speed (RPM) signal.


    I get stumped at this point. And until it's figured out there's no point in continuing. You'll still need knock, oil pressure and other sensors too. I looked at several GM ECU's, and none from about '94 up Grand Am/Grand Prix's use anything but a hall-effect crank sensor. I don't know what BMW uses, nor do i know if it's 3x or 18x pickup.

    Here's the short version of what I'm saying. It can be done, but it's gonna be a HELLUVA lot of work without a BMW ECU and throttle pedal assembly. As fun as a V12 would be, I don't think I'd do it. Unless you're going to go with a MegaSquirt stand-alone engine managment system. Those can be adapted to run just about anything.
    Last edited by Noltz; 03-23-2010 at 10:04 PM.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ottawa
    Posts
    227
    Time Online: 1 Day 7 Hrs 58 Mins 20 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 6 Secs
    Rep Power
    12
    thanks for the good info Noltz! I does seem like lots of work and lots of research. I just got an email back from a guy out west that can sell me a stand alone harness for about 1200 bucks. This would include both ecus and the dis ignition. He told me he sells lots of them for lambo kit cars and they seem to be working so might look into that. Here is his website:

    http://www.choiceautowiring.com/index.html

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ottawa
    Posts
    227
    Time Online: 1 Day 7 Hrs 58 Mins 20 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 6 Secs
    Rep Power
    12
    So i might aswell post and update. Looks the v12 will happen just not right now. I have to finish my cj project and build a new shop so once those are done the new cj project will start. So stay tunned for a late summer start if everything works out.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ottawa
    Posts
    1,138
    My Mood
    Lurking
    Time Online: 1 Mth 1 Wk 1 Day 12 Hrs 19 Mins 53 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 3 Mins 9 Secs
    Rep Power
    11
    Wouldnt mind seeing a build thread for your shop.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ottawa
    Posts
    227
    Time Online: 1 Day 7 Hrs 58 Mins 20 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 6 Secs
    Rep Power
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorPhate View Post
    Wouldnt mind seeing a build thread for your shop.
    As soon as we iron out the details a thread will be posted. Looks like its going to be 24x34 not too big but better than the small two car we have now.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •