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Thread: Etest FAIL!!!!!

  1. #1
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    Etest FAIL!!!!!

    Calling on you emission guys out there...
    I have an 88 Yj with a 90 Cherokee 4.0 motor and it failed emissions (big surprise!). New tune up, air filter, oil changed, high test fuel, new cat (aftermarket). It failed on super high Nox. I was told the most common reason is a faulty EGR system or bad cat. My cat is old but New. Has been on the jeep for four years or so but never really driven on the road until last Friday. I've noticed that the EGR valve wasn't opening but will open when I use a screwdriver. I replaced the egr and transducer because it was corroded to heck and it would hold a vacuum but never open. So I fixed one problem, now my problem is the EGR SOLENOID. It is getting battery voltage all the time and it is getting 15 inhg of vacuum but nothing at the output which leads me to believe the solenoid is effed. I'm just wondering why it's always getting battery voltage under various RPM ranges. I have all the input sensors hooked up and the jeep runs fantastic , doesn't smoke at all and even drips water out the tailpipe (cat working) although it idles around 1100 rpm.

    Anybody want to touch this one? It's very frustrating for me, after building an 88 for 8 yrs thinking it'll be exempt in 2008, then getting bent over on this really burns! Any ideas on if the solenoid should be replaced and if anyone knows where to get one? Price? (have checked Partsman in Oshawa with no luck) thanks for any input or ideas you may have
    Anthony

    ---------- Post added at 01:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:26 AM ----------

    All the other values on the Etest were way below limits
    Last edited by mudrocks; 07-08-2010 at 11:30 PM. Reason: iphone to computer

  2. #2
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    I'll try and speak to a jeep mechanic down the road. Nonethless I'll post my findings here if/whn I figure this out.

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    Keep us posted.

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    i have seen many aftermarket cats go bad in two years. You should do a temp test on the cat when warmed up if it runs really hot(cant remember the range) it can be bad. also was the jeep up to temp when they tested it the jeep needes to be up to temp to

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    Why isn't it exempt? Where I live we. don't have to do emissions but I am moving in a couple of weeks to a place that does. Kinda worried about my 89 now.
    1989 Jeep YJ, AMC 401 fuel injected, D60 welded/14b locked, SM-465, np203 to Dana20 doubler, 44" XMLs, etc....

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    Your 89 has a 401, that was not stock on the vehicle, so you will be able to run it as a hot-rod, you may still need a cat to get it passed though.

    As for the EGR, when I swapped mine it really helped the NOX. I also change my cat every 2 years, $110 for the large aftermarket one and swap them in the driveway. If you feel that your cat is still good enough you can probably tune the carb to make it pass once the EGR is replaced.
    Rod
    ___________
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    -89 Black YJ 4.2L, 92 axles with 4.10 gears, shogun racing seats, 33x10.5 BFG MT, 4" Rough Country Lift, bed lined tub
    -98 4Runner 210K on it now

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    I can't imagine what registering it as a hotrod would do to my insurance. Might be easier to buy a trailer.

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    The cat has me thinking. I know it was hot when I got to the shop but it sat idling for 10 minutes before the test too. Apparently magnaflow sells an aftermarket cat that makes almost all vehicles who failed pass so I may try that. I ordered a solenoid from dealer for 90$ see how that does

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    I used a magnaflow cat, the thing is 13" long.
    I will find out this weekend what model it was and pass that along.

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    WOah woah... K, first things first. The function of the EGR is to reduce combustion chamber temps. High combustion chamber temperatures CAUSE high NOx levels. This is almost certainly your problem... not your cat. I too have seen cats go bad after only a few years, but if the trucks running well (water dripping is an excellent sign) then it's unlikely the cat.

    Now, you have a few options here. '88 did NOT come with a 4.0, so technically speaking your Jeep is a Hot Rod by Drive Clean standards. Don't worry... your insurances doesn't care about what Drive Clean thinks. It does not go anywhere but onto Drive Cleans computer that a 4.0 (a SMALLER engine, BTW) has been installed. So, you can go back to another garage and say "Hello, I need a Drive Clean please. The Jeep is technically a Hot Rod, because it has a 4.0 engine in it, and this year/model never had a 4.0 - only a 4.2". The limits are higher for Hot Rods, but only 300 PPM NOx. If you're higher than that, this will not work.

    Second option, and highly recommended, is to fix the EGR. Good on you for replacing the transducer and valve together. They come as a pair from Chrysler. Big question is why it's not working. If it's holding vacuum (I'm guessing you're using a hand pump), and the transducer has a good vacuum supply, and good power, the only reason it's not working is the ECU is not sending a ground signal to the EGR (or the wire is cut). IIRC, the EGR Transducer is supposed to have 12V+ when the key is on, and the ECU controls the GROUND side (like a coil). I believe it get's it's power through the ASD Relay, but that depends on who did the swap and how it was done.

    To assist you further, I need to know what year the ECU, Engine and Harness was removed from. I can then get you the PIN number from the ECU that is supposed to control the EGR, which will allow you to test the ECU @ the connector, and also test the wire from the ECU to the Transducer.
    ....-Noltz
    '91 Frankenheep Edition. 4.0, 4" BDS, Richmond 8.8, 35" KM2's, Titan 12k, ... gone.
    '95 4Runner SR5. Air-Lift bags, OBA & 8K Winch, DD... gone.

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    [QUOTE=Noltz;1120209]WOah woah... K, first things first. The function of the EGR is to reduce combustion chamber temps. High combustion chamber temperatures CAUSE high NOx levels. This is almost certainly your problem... not your cat. I too have seen cats go bad after only a few years, but if the trucks running well (water dripping is an excellent sign) then it's unlikely the cat.

    yes but the cat needs to be up to temp to to work and yes it sounds like a egr to me to

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noltz View Post
    WOah woah... K, first things first. The function of the EGR is to reduce combustion chamber temps. High combustion chamber temperatures CAUSE high NOx levels. This is almost certainly your problem... not your cat. I too have seen cats go bad after only a few years, but if the trucks running well (water dripping is an excellent sign) then it's unlikely the cat.

    Now, you have a few options here. '88 did NOT come with a 4.0, so technically speaking your Jeep is a Hot Rod by Drive Clean standards. Don't worry... your insurances doesn't care about what Drive Clean thinks. It does not go anywhere but onto Drive Cleans computer that a 4.0 (a SMALLER engine, BTW) has been installed. So, you can go back to another garage and say "Hello, I need a Drive Clean please. The Jeep is technically a Hot Rod, because it has a 4.0 engine in it, and this year/model never had a 4.0 - only a 4.2". The limits are higher for Hot Rods, but only 300 PPM NOx. If you're higher than that, this will not work.

    Second option, and highly recommended, is to fix the EGR. Good on you for replacing the transducer and valve together. They come as a pair from Chrysler. Big question is why it's not working. If it's holding vacuum (I'm guessing you're using a hand pump), and the transducer has a good vacuum supply, and good power, the only reason it's not working is the ECU is not sending a ground signal to the EGR (or the wire is cut). IIRC, the EGR Transducer is supposed to have 12V+ when the key is on, and the ECU controls the GROUND side (like a coil). I believe it get's it's power through the ASD Relay, but that depends on who did the swap and how it was done.

    To assist you further, I need to know what year the ECU, Engine and Harness was removed from. I can then get you the PIN number from the ECU that is supposed to control the EGR, which will allow you to test the ECU @ the connector, and also test the wire from the ECU to the Transducer.


    This is the response I was hoping for.
    I do have 13 volts at the EGR solenoid and 15 inhg of vacuum at the input of the solenoid but no vacuum at the output. Also the voltage coming in fluctuates (I think) when i change the RPM's but that could also be the voltmeter messing about. I swapped the ECU, Harness and motor from a 90 Cherokee and I did it all myself quite a few years ago. I believe all i spliced in was the ignition, charging systems as well as the fuel pump wire. My Hanes manual doesn't give any wiring diagrams of anything related to the EGR so any info on that would help greatly. If this solenoid trick doesn't work, I'll be into the wiring harness finding continuity from pin connector to solenoid. The cat, from what I got from the Mechanic at the Jeep dealer mentioned the cat I bought was junk because it's not a 3-way catalyst. Maybe an input sensor isnt working telling the ECU to send vacuum to the EGR to open? this is just a crap shoot, Im drawing straws. Great experience though. And I will keep posting. Who knows, it may help someone else down the road.
    Thanks
    Anthony

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    for what it's worth, I've tried this for the last 3 etest and passed with flying colours. Tell them you have swapped in a fulltime tcase in and they wont test it at speed, mine passes wonderfully that way, no problems at all, not even close. Listen to Noltz tho, mine is a way around it, not a solution.

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    I'm happy to help. Automotive electrical is my specialty at work... I love the technical challenges of it.

    Anyway, here's the diagram for your trucks ECU system as a whole. We were correct in our assumptions earlier that the EGR Transducer ('ducer for short?) get's 12V+ from a relay (fuel pump), and is controlled from the ECU supplying a ground signal as required. Run a test wire from PIN 10 to your 'ducer green wire, and tap a vacuum tee into the EGR valve supply line. Go for a drive and see if vacuum is now being applied. Warm engine, 40kph steady, check for vacuum.


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    heh buddy your not too far from the place noltz works , its worth the trip to say hi.he knows his stuff. if you suspect your cat as being too old replace it too , a 2inch aftermarket is only 70.00 cheap added assurance that its not that part, but noltz is the expert.. heh noltz hi from Bryn ,did you get your testing cert. ???
    Bryn; 86 chev k5 blazer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noltz View Post
    I'm happy to help. Automotive electrical is my specialty at work... I love the technical challenges of it.

    Anyway, here's the diagram for your trucks ECU system as a whole. We were correct in our assumptions earlier that the EGR Transducer ('ducer for short?) get's 12V+ from a relay (fuel pump), and is controlled from the ECU supplying a ground signal as required. Run a test wire from PIN 10 to your 'ducer green wire, and tap a vacuum tee into the EGR valve supply line. Go for a drive and see if vacuum is now being applied. Warm engine, 40kph steady, check for vacuum.

    Where do you work and what hours are you there? That diagram will help greatly. I'll be picking up the solenoid Monday night and see what happens.

    ---------- Post added at 02:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn rennie View Post
    heh buddy your not too far from the place noltz works , its worth the trip to say hi.he knows his stuff. if you suspect your cat as being too old replace it too , a 2inch aftermarket is only 70.00 cheap added assurance that its not that part, but noltz is the expert.. heh noltz hi from Bryn ,did you get your testing cert. ???
    The Cat I hear that is supposed to be amazing is a high performance one from crappy tire, comes in a green box and is about 80.00$ so I'll probably change it out too. The guys in auto service tell me this cat is put on every etest fail they get and it works nails. I just want it to run clean with no emissions issues, so I can sell it properly and to not burn anyone
    Last edited by mudrocks; 07-10-2010 at 10:08 AM.

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    Update. I installed the new egr solenoid and in conjunction with the new egr valve it works! I hooked up a vacuum gauge to the output of the transducer to the egr and took it for a drive and got vacuum under load. When I'm just cruising it is closed and when the engine is under load the egr opens up. I hope that's how it should work. I also picked up a new cat by magnaflow which is supposed to work great for emissions. Waiting on etest for Friday so we'll check out the numbers then. Fingers crossed!!!!! Thanks for all your help noltz. That diagram helped me ring out some of the sensor control wires and make sure everything was connected properly.

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    Update?

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    You mentioned that you'd installed a new aftermarket cat - did you buy this for the year of the jeep or for the 4.0? The year of the jeep would call for a 2 way cat that does NOT clear out NOX, so the 4.0, with no NOX removal plumbing needs a 3 way cat to clean things up & pass emissions testing.

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    i just had my tj tested yesterday. passed.
    the guy i go to does not put jeeps on the rollers, only a 2 speed idle test. and no appointment either.
    proud OF4WD member #3875

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