Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Full hydro steering

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Windsor,On
    Posts
    911
    Time Online: 10 Mths 1 Day 5 Hrs 51 Mins 9 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 24 Mins 46 Secs
    Rep Power
    6

    Full hydro steering

    Im interested in going full hydro, for now though I will be useing hydro asssist Until I can afford the setup. What are your opinions.I have a basic understanding of hydro. Is it worth doing this in 2 stages. can I use a stock gm ps pump? is it suitable for full hydro setup. and cylinders do I need a double ended ram? Please speak upand share you knowledge.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Caistor Centre - Cultural Hub of the universe
    Posts
    4,937
    My Mood
    Buzzed
    Time Online: 10 Mths 3 Wks 5 Days 6 Hrs 26 Mins 17 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 26 Mins 49 Secs
    Rep Power
    28
    If you want to turn big rubber at any time and in any condition and do so effortlessly, full hydro is the only real choice. It makes driving a rig with big rubber all bound up in the rocks easy. You can use the steering to push the rig around in tight situations as well. It's hard not to like what it has to offer.

    From a financial stand point, it is not worth doing in 2 stages. You will have to spend more money to build two steering systems. But if that is the way you have to do it, then so be it.

    As for pumps, a GM hydroboost P pump will work ok. The non hydroboost pump will not work...it won't flow enough. You will find that the flow requirement for an assist system and full hydro is similar for the most part. A 2.5" bore double ended ram with a 1.5" shaft will provide plenty of power for most people. They provide enough power to break stock D60 knuckles.

    It isn't for everyone. The orbital valves do have a little bit of internal leakage so you will find that it does take a little getting used to when driving on the street. The right orbital is key to making the system drive well and work properly. You want to choose the right volume orbital for your preference of turns lock to lock and to match the volume requirement of the ram. As well, a load reactive orbital will provide some road feedback through the steering wheel. Though, it is significantly reduced. This is not ideal for a highway cruiser or daily driver...but for the occasional street cruiser, it is worth it for the performance gain on the trail.
    A Member of:
    New Frontier 4x4 Club
    OF4WD 4928 & 6687


    1980 CJ Juggy
    2004 GC 4.7 HO Overland

    "Simple, yet functional....like a Sledgehammer"

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Windsor,On
    Posts
    911
    Time Online: 10 Mths 1 Day 5 Hrs 51 Mins 9 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 24 Mins 46 Secs
    Rep Power
    6
    Thanks for the info it helps alot. I have a couple more questions. does full hydro still need a tie rod? And is it cheaper to souce your own parts or getting a psc kit? whach think?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Caistor Centre - Cultural Hub of the universe
    Posts
    4,937
    My Mood
    Buzzed
    Time Online: 10 Mths 3 Wks 5 Days 6 Hrs 26 Mins 17 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 26 Mins 49 Secs
    Rep Power
    28
    Full hydro only needs a tie rod if you are running a single ended ram. The double ended ram effectively becomes the tie rod. You can certainly run a single ended ram but the volume and force on the ram will be unequal side to side, left to right. For some people, it does not matter. Myself, I like the fact that the double ended ram has equal turns lock to lock left and right and the force the ram exerts is also equal. Packaging the double ended ram requires a little more thought but the end results are usually a cleaner install and a nicer looking set along with perfectly consistent performance turning left or right.

    The kits PSC offers are very thorough and are the most cost effective way to have a high quality excellent performing steering system. You will not be able to piece together a system for less money with the same quality parts. And I would not recommend doing so unless you had a sound knowledge of full hydro steering. PSC has really taken the guess work out of it and made it more cost-effective.
    Last edited by CTD NUT; 11-29-2012 at 04:16 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Redacted
    Posts
    4,997
    My Mood
    Aggressive
    Time Online: 4 Wks 1 Day 8 Hrs 33 Mins 45 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 2 Mins 24 Secs
    Rep Power
    20
    I have an assist setup and if I were to do it over again I would have gone full hydro. There is no messing about with steering angles, links, etc...you just run the lines, mount the ram and be done with it.
    TrailGear makes an orbital that returns to center which would provide a more street-friendly steering feel.
    PAX ARMIS ACQUIRITUR
    99 TJ, HPD60/14B, TMR Customs 3 and 4 link, 40's.

    Project Sandstorm Remix

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Windsor,On
    Posts
    911
    Time Online: 10 Mths 1 Day 5 Hrs 51 Mins 9 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 24 Mins 46 Secs
    Rep Power
    6
    Yah I should have thought through the tie rod question.when you said internal leakage does that mean you need to correct steering like a wondering sensation/ feel. Thanks for the info guys

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    eganville
    Posts
    398
    Time Online: 1 Wk 6 Days 23 Hrs 9 Mins 21 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 1 Min 8 Secs
    Rep Power
    7
    full hydro is really nice although i never have used it off road the hydro stering has a nice feeling i drive a zamboni so i use it often
    91 Renagade
    frame replacement and more http://www.jeepkings.ca/forums/showt...91-yj-renagade

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Caistor Centre - Cultural Hub of the universe
    Posts
    4,937
    My Mood
    Buzzed
    Time Online: 10 Mths 3 Wks 5 Days 6 Hrs 26 Mins 17 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 26 Mins 49 Secs
    Rep Power
    28
    The steering may wander a little to one side depending on the crown of the road. Where ever the load acts against the orbital is where there is a potential for a very slight amount of internal leakage. You get used to it. Return to center feel can be aided with addition of a little extra caster but it will be limited. The return center or orbitals are the load reactive type. The extra feel they provide is minimal. You aren't going full hydro for road handling manners...it is the no compromise offroad steering...but at the cost of some on road performance.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Midland
    Posts
    5,741
    My Mood
    Lurking
    Time Online: 3 Mths 3 Wks 2 Days 18 Hrs 20 Mins 1 Sec
    Avg. Time Online: 9 Mins 21 Secs
    Rep Power
    16
    If you are thinking hydro steer then contact DVSJEEP ........ he sells the complete kits, bolt on and play
    91 Suburban on 38 Swampers, 5.7 (350) V1500 4x4. Big ...red...and ugly.

    "The camel toe is the smile of the body, if the body were a face"

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Beamsville! Where else?
    Posts
    4,416
    My Mood
    Twisted
    Time Online: 1 Mth 2 Wks 6 Days 18 Hrs 37 Mins 53 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 4 Mins 10 Secs
    Rep Power
    15

    Full hydro steering

    I have a PSC double ended kit. I have 0 complaints. I could cruise down the road at over 100kms with my hand on my knee and my thumb on the wheel just like in my pickup. Every once in a while you need to correct and move the wheel a little. A fancy MoMo wheel with a stripe on the bottom would be useless because after 15-20 mins the stripe would be somewhere else besides the bottom. It's really no big deal, like mentioned by CTD you just need to get used to it.
    Trying to cobble together a Princess Auto full hydro system would be a complete waste of money.


    Sent from my iPhone using My thumbs
    CHARLIE DON'T SURF!!
    DINGA DING DANG, MY DANGA LONG LING LONG
    OF4WD#5576
    BOOYAH!!!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Exeter, Ontario
    Posts
    2,937
    Time Online: 2 Mths 1 Wk 2 Days 14 Hrs 25 Mins 39 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 5 Mins 43 Secs
    Rep Power
    13
    I switched to full hydro from assist when I went to 44's. I have maybe 300.00 into my kit. But I researched, waited and found things seperate other then buying a kit. But I have done hydraulic systems before and studied it when I was in college for Mech. Eng.

    I got my 7.1 cu Ddisp orbital which is NON-load reactive for 50.00 from a local Forklift scrapper/rebuilder
    My 2.5"x8' with a 1.5" shaft double end ram came brand new from Ebay off a Nissan Forklift. The guy had a bunch and I even linked some Pirate Guy to him. I payed 75.00 shipped.
    I run a reman GM Hydroboost pump didcated to the steering and another dedicated to my hydroboost brakes
    My bro-in-law has a line crimper and I have a JIC Flaring kit so I have a mix of Hardlines and flex.
    I had 3/4" Hiems from my previous setup.
    I machined my own hi-steer arms that double shear to the stock tie rod hole.
    Etc. Etc.


    I have not yet driven it on the road, but playing around in my old rig and blasting accross the feild at my parents at about 50km It was tight, and very responsive. I am 100% putting it into my YJ. My only complaint is that the fluid input on the cylinder is on the bottom, making it extremely hard to bleed the air, so my pump squeeled a bunch when it was cold. I am fixing this by machining asome bleeder on the top of the cylinder as upposed to flipping it over as it would be neer inpossible to mmfab some mounts on the axle for it.

    But if you are not comfortable doing something like this yourself... DON'T!!!!!! Again I understand hydraulics from my education, and I still spent 4+months reseaching.

    Want more tech and answers, and good place to start is Billavista's Hydro Steering Bible and then go from there.
    http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...ing/index.html

    And Yes contact Sean DVSjeep. He is a Hydraulic Engineer. I've spoken with him on some systems at work, but not steering. He started a knowledge thread on Jeepkings, but never finished it.
    90 YJ. 4link F/R, 16" SAW Airshocks, 32bolt Beadlocks, D60/14bolt, Full Hydro/Hydroboost L67 3.8SC 700r4 NP231/D300
    02 Yukon XL on 37's DD
    91 Cherokee Juggy scrapped for Greener Grass
    I prefer to build it and not buy it, you see it, I probably made it.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Windsor,On
    Posts
    911
    Time Online: 10 Mths 1 Day 5 Hrs 51 Mins 9 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 24 Mins 46 Secs
    Rep Power
    6
    WOW is the least I can say about the info on that link.I think everyone with hydro steering should read it just to understand whats goung on .
    Thanks

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Beamsville! Where else?
    Posts
    4,416
    My Mood
    Twisted
    Time Online: 1 Mth 2 Wks 6 Days 18 Hrs 37 Mins 53 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 4 Mins 10 Secs
    Rep Power
    15

    Full hydro steering

    We have. Lol


    Sent from my iPhone using My thumbs

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Caistor Centre - Cultural Hub of the universe
    Posts
    4,937
    My Mood
    Buzzed
    Time Online: 10 Mths 3 Wks 5 Days 6 Hrs 26 Mins 17 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 26 Mins 49 Secs
    Rep Power
    28
    Yes, Billavista is the man when it comes to very in-depth tech. He has since left Pirate and started his own site.

    http://billavista.com/tech/index.html

    I have a fairly sound educational background with hydraulics and still found it hard to beat the PSC kits for value. While the hull hydro kits are far from what would be considered bolt-on, they do have a comprehensive parts list and for most, selecting the correct kit should leave you with literally nothing left to source to do a full hydro install. Other than perhaps steer arms and/or knuckles.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •