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Thread: Insurance fraud

  1. #21
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    Insurance fraud

    Screw insurance companies. They commit robbery everyday.


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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeper52 View Post
    Why are Ontarios insurance companies charging more than other provinces. In california you cant play with emissions stuff so you see alot of newer engine swaps and alot of suspension mods as in many other states . we have provinces that dont even care if youve modified the vehicle, why only Ontario, the highest population in Canada . and they are bending us over backwards on reduced liability. Am I making sence ?
    There is a long drawn out answer to this, that if you go online you can find.

    But it comes down to the type of legal system we have in Ontario vs other provinces, rates are WAY lower in QC... and some US states.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by thing1 View Post
    So all this insurance shit reminds me when I moved to Winnipeg from Ontario. I was in the forces (only reason to live in Winnipeg)LOL. I was 24 and being screwed by Ont insurance. I was paying $5500 a year to insure a 1980 Pontiac Grand Prix. When I went to get insurance in Manitoba I walked in to the office (autopac) it was called, Government run. The woman behind the counter told me what I was going to have to pay and I ****in near shit myself!!!!!!!! $1200 a year FULL COVERAGE!!!!!!!! WTF? just for moving out of ontario!!!!!!
    Lets just say when I moved back to Ontario, I still had a buddy in Manitoba, and it took me awhile to change my addy!!!!! And out there, you could take any POS and throw it on the road, no questions asked. Not that I believe that is smart, your vehicle should be safetied, but who ever thought no fault Gov insurance would work. I even had the GF get in an accident with it and they fixed it right!!!!
    Same deal... different type of system... it has its advantages and dis advantages.

    Ill dig up some information for you all to read, I think part of the problem in ON is that people arent educated enough and dont understand the simple - yet complicated system we have.

    As for the comment regarding there isnt much fraud going on in auto insurance - you my friend need to take a look at some of the information out there. Its costing HUGE amounts of money, in the GTA there is law suits against Drs who have committed the fraud, a quick google search will educate you a little more. If you want to provide opinions or comments, please make sure you back them up with some evidence, not a " when my truck was in a accident " You are only one of millions of insured people in ontario.

    Ill provide some google links for you shortly.

  4. #24
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    Here is a little interestin youtube clip - some of you may have seen this as I think it was thier TV ad.

    Maybe it will make a little more sense now, where the money goes. Its not to the damage of the car.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3AeWxZNty8


    Here is a link that explains briefly the difference in the provinces.

    http://www.cooperators.ca/en/Insurance/auto.aspx


    My sole purpose of the post was to educated people about insurance fraud, it can happen to any of us, you may not even realize whats going on. I understand people dont like paying for something that they dont use - however, if your beloved jeep gets stolen and catches fire are you prepared to pay out the lien ( if you have one ) in full? If you get injured and cant goto work, can you afford your mortgage payment, if you need to goto a chiropracter for rehab, and you dont have benifits through your employer, can you afford to pay for them yourself?

    I dont agree with auto rates in the province, I pay the same as everyone else does, but, I can see the benifits of it all the time. Not all insurance companies are trying to stick it to the man. Some are, and smetimes there is reasons for the denied claims, and slow settlements keep in mind, you only here the consumers side of the story amongst the internet forums, and nobody likes to admit they did something wrong, or go caught doing something illegal.

    Hope ive brought some light to a subject that seems to be very unclear amongst consumers.

    And this forum sections been a little slow.
    Last edited by Crazykid; 04-29-2013 at 10:43 AM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazykid View Post
    Hit can happen to any of us, you may not even realize whats going on
    Quote Originally Posted by jeeper52 View Post
    Im not sure how much fraud can be happening, when someone hit my truck I took it to the shop of my choice, and the body guy showed me the esimate that the insurance rep allowed. Not a penny more. and he estimated high and 2007 ford body parts are cheap tailgate and headlights. I couldn't add anything! The insurance industry knows what things cost and keep good stats. they know the average what dr's charge for certain ailments. AS a dealer of service to insurance companies I do know why we charge them top rate, because they pay so slow and then try to nickel and dime us to lower prices.
    Here's something that boggled me. Come to think of it, it's probably completely intentional:

    Two years ago I was in pulling away from a fresh green, check the time, my mirrors, and apparently everyone in front of my had slammed to a stop. Suffice to say between reaction time and brakes, my little Tercel was toast. The Blazer's bumper was a bit scratched from shattered headlights, but otherwise fine. Could have used some Tremclad. The Tercel, however, had the radiator punched in by the hitch receiver. I called around a bit and got some quotes around $800 to fix up the Tercel, I guessed the Blazer would be about $50-100 to get professionally repainted (or a $10 can of paint at Crappy...) so it was a non-reportable accident. A couple days later the cops called and said I needed to drop by and fill out the report because the guy driving the Blazer panicked (more like his parents flipped) and reported his end.

    When I got there I explained why I had not appeared. The rep for the insurance-company owned reporting center said that the numbers they use as a threshold for reportable are NOT what a normal Joe would get quoted, but rather the "insurance company's cost to repair". The scratched paint on the Blazer's bumper was assessed as $800 in damage! Eight hundred ****ing dollars for a scratched steel bumper! So I say "bullshit" that costs are high due to policy holder fraud, "bullshit" that shops are nefarious. The shops are charging too much, the companies KNOW it, and they're fine with it! How else do you explain them expecting to pay $800 for a ****ing scratch?

    /rant
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  6. #26
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    What about the complete fraud (ass rape) that the chain body shops do to the insurance companies? It's amazing at the deal you'll get when you ask for an insurance quote and then tell em you'll pay cash. Its 40-50% of the origonal bill. I know CarStar has to be one of the biggest insuance comapny rip-oof artists.

    Bill, can you guys do anything about being overcharges by the colision shops?


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  7. #27
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    Like I said before the isurance companies keep the best stats and already know what a claim is going to cost from the get go. ask about risk management. Also if the insurance companies were easier to deal with from a shops point of view. they may not get charged so much. we had to wait up to 3 months for the money. I wasnt in buisiness to float them. Dont forget the insurance accident reps estimate the total of repairs. At least with my insurance co. the shop has to abide by that price. Maybe the ins. co. should do an advertising campain to stop fraud.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeper52 View Post
    Maybe the ins. co. should do an advertising campain to stop fraud.
    Umm...they already do.

    But as Chris pointed out, there is obvious evidence of collusion at every level between the automotive industry and insurance companies. What constitutes fraud can depend on what side of the fence you are on. Their policies have a large contribution to claims costs being where they are at right now.

    Fraud is only one cost factor of many.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeper52 View Post
    Like I said before the isurance companies keep the best stats and already know what a claim is going to cost from the get go. ask about risk management. Also if the insurance companies were easier to deal with from a shops point of view. they may not get charged so much. we had to wait up to 3 months for the money. I wasnt in buisiness to float them. Dont forget the insurance accident reps estimate the total of repairs. At least with my insurance co. the shop has to abide by that price. Maybe the ins. co. should do an advertising campain to stop fraud.

    I think any business 60-90 days to be paid is realistic.

    Hell I dont get my commissions on sales ( no auto commissions incase you wonder ) for 3 months. I know my parents business theyhave to float accounts for 90 days and thier delaing with companies like samsung, maytag and whirlpool. So having to wait 90 days doesnt seem out of line in buisness.

    You obviously didnt click the link I posted to the TV COMMERCIAL that the IBC runs about insurance fraud. LOL

  10. #30
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    I have to apologise to you Crazykid! As an insurance guy you are bearing the brunt of this. what we are saying is there is something wrong with the Ontario insurance system and it needs an overhaul!! We all know that!! We shouldnt put you in a position to have to defend the industry, like you created it. Anytime I feel like someone is tying my hands ,I get very angry, but not at you, at a system that doesnt allow the freedoms others in this country have. this is also what its like to be english speaking in Quebec. But dont get me started on that topic!! Just cause you want to express yourself differently, you should be allowed to, and there should be rules to follow for that too. I love vehicles and enjoy modifying them . To some extent ,I dont think I have ever driven a vehicle (in 30 some odd years) that wasnt at least a little customized( modified). Oh the auto industry doesnt have a 30,60,or 90 day payment plan we get paid when the work is done. if you take longer to pay you pay more. call any shop and get a price for a certain job and then tell them you want 90 day no payments. its the same as giving credit to someone with a poor rating , the rates go way up.... to 29 percent!!!

    The insurance industry only deals insurance at the agent and broker level, after that they manage money. Thats all!! Invest, reduce risk, make more money. I believe that if they were so motivated they could cover our vehicles for alot less than they do now. No laws are motivating them yet.
    Last edited by jeeper52; 04-30-2013 at 05:20 PM.

  11. #31
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    edited.... (this is in the ask an insurance thread) opinions are not valid post in this section.
    My bad.
    Last edited by v1nc3; 05-01-2013 at 07:16 PM.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTD NUT View Post
    Insurance financials are a sketchy for sure.

    I have heard them claim that their profits are from investments and not premiums.
    They take our policys which contain ( a promise to pay) and invest that into the secondary derivatives market. That`s where all of the policy holders equity gets diluted (ass raped).
    That`s also where all the record profits come from as well.
    It s called fractional reserve banking , it will stop sooner then later. http://mises.org/daily/6394/
    Read modern money mechanics if you re interested in how the ass raping happens. http://archive.org/details/ModernMoneyMechanics
    If you don`t like reading, here is a movie for you that explains it simply. http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/ adendum 2008
    Last edited by 4wheeler; 05-03-2013 at 04:50 PM.

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