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Thread: Damn near clipped a bicycle today !!

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    Damn near clipped a bicycle today !!

    This has me fuming mad, but before I tirade in public let me ask;

    I'm stopped in the right lane of a two way road, waiting to turn right. I'm second car behind the line. Plains Rd & Waterdown Rd, Burlington, westbound to be exact. My light goes green, car ahead goes straight. I start accelerating to turn right and a FLIPPIN' bicycle shoots up the curb on my right. Wife screams, I lurch the brakes, kids are crying and this f'k head turns and gives ME the finger.

    Now that I've wiped the spit from my screen, who's at fault in that situation?

    Btw this was in my unmodified car, not the jeep.
    ....-Noltz
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    Awesome question Noltz...I, like you, await the SAVE officer's response...too many times this is going to happen in the coming months of warm weather.
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    sorry for my choice of language
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    very interested in this as well.

    too add a question, can two vehicles (bicycle and car) share one designated lane?

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    Good questions, and to say I am no expert in bicycle legislation is an understatement!

    I touched on bicycles and how they relate to the HTA in a previous thread here: http://www.jeepkings.ca/forums/showt...n-or-a-vehicle

    I also found these pages from the MTO website. Some very good reading! http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pub...ction5.0.shtml and http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pub...ction3.0.shtml

    It would appear from reading these, that the cyclist is in the wrong by passing you to the right like that at an intersection. As far as the actual legislation reads, the best section I can find so far is this one:


    Sec 148
    Vehicles or equestrians overtaking others

    (5) Every person in charge of a vehicle or on horseback on a highway who is overtaking another vehicle or equestrian shall turn out to the left so far as may be necessary to avoid a collision with the vehicle or equestrian overtaken, and the person overtaken is not required to leave more than one-half of the roadway free. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 148 (5).


    I can't find a specific charge for this in any of my wordings and fines. I found one that is close, but again, being that I have no expertise in the bicycle enforcement area, I'm afraid I am not much more help than this.

    If you get the itch to find out more, usually the "community safety Officer" (or some other designation) at your local Police Department, will be able to help you out with any bicycle info. They will also more likely be aware of any By-Laws that are in effect in the area you're talking about.

    I know this isn't much, but hopefully it helps!
    Opinions expressed are those of the author, accuracy of information posted cannot be guaranteed. These opinions in no way represent the OPP, any other Police Department or Police Officer.

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    Was it a "ebike"

    Those are seeming to come from any and all directions these days, and fast.

    Does the scenario change in that situation???


    EDIT**... i followed one of the links above and read about ebikes.

    My bad for posting before exploring.
    Last edited by Crazykid; 04-29-2013 at 02:03 PM.
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    again a classic example of bicycles wanting all the advantages of the "rules of the road" but none of the responsibilities of the road. I deal with this on a daily basis. I had a similar incident with a cyclist downtown who decided to scream at me that I almost ran him over. First I reminded him that I had my signal on to turn right long before he came up beside me and squeezed his way through and secondly even if he was right, that if he continued to ride on the road with no consideration of other users that he would eventually be right, but still DEAD. He screamed at me that he had his rights. I told him to go home and read the Highway Traffic Act.
    I have Anal Glaucoma- I can't see my ass coming into work today.

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    I have a contact on the Hamilton Police force that may know about this as he is a "Bike cop". I'll ask him.



    ON OFFroad would it be ok to post his response?
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    Re: Damn near clipped a bicycle today !!

    If I could make a suggestion. ... perhaps start a thread in "off topic" when you get your response. That way the topic can be discussed and debated. As I mentioned, this is not in my field of expertise, so I might not have a lot to add.

    It sounds like there might be a few interesting stories told! LOL

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    Re: Damn near clipped a bicycle today !!

    I'll just say again, so people don't get offended. If you would like to open this up for a discussion, can I ask you to please start a thread in "off topic"

    This forum is not the place for that.

    I have already mentioned that I am not an expert in this area by any means. It was mentioned above that someone will contact a bicycle Officer from Hamilton, and that will be a perfect opportunity to create a discussion thread on this.

    Thanks for understanding!

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    Hopefully this isn't found out of line, I'm just trying to contribute

    Quote Originally Posted by ON OFFroad View Post
    Good questions, and to say I am no expert in bicycle legislation is an understatement!

    I touched on bicycles and how they relate to the HTA in a previous thread here: http://www.jeepkings.ca/forums/showt...n-or-a-vehicle

    I also found these pages from the MTO website. Some very good reading! http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pub...ction5.0.shtml and http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pub...ction3.0.shtml
    For those who don't like clicking links, indeed it says

    When a motorist is making a right-hand turn, cyclists can either stay behind the vehicle or pass the right-turning vehicle on the left by shoulder checking, signalling, shoulder checking again and then passing on the left. Never pass a right-turning vehicle on the right.
    However whether cyclists are actually aware of the road rules is unpredictable, since they do not require any examination or licensing, nor am I certain if this is a "rule" or a "recommendation"


    Quote Originally Posted by ON OFFroad View Post
    It would appear from reading these, that the cyclist is in the wrong by passing you to the right like that at an intersection. As far as the actual legislation reads, the best section I can find so far is this one:


    Sec 148
    Vehicles or equestrians overtaking others

    (5) Every person in charge of a vehicle or on horseback on a highway who is overtaking another vehicle or equestrian shall turn out to the left so far as may be necessary to avoid a collision with the vehicle or equestrian overtaken, and the person overtaken is not required to leave more than one-half of the roadway free. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 148 (5).
    This very much sounds like it was written for vehicles that occupy an entire lane - for instance, a bicycle will not collide with a vehicle in front of them it is being ridden on the shoulder, because there is no vehicle in front of it, therefore it cannot overtake a vehicle which is already beside it - so I do not think it applies.


    Now a real question to keep it technically on topic - are drivers required to perform a shoulder check when changing lanes? These days a prospective driver will fail their DriveTest G1 or G2 road exam if they fail to check all applicable blind spots before changing lanes, but I believe some things they check for are not directly HTA requirements, such as how you grip the steering wheel.
    But our trip was different. It was to be a classic affirmation of everything right and true in the national character. A gross physical salute to the fantastic possibilities of life in this country. But only for those with true grit.

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    Damn near clipped a bicycle today !!

    Thank you for your time. I have to agree with some of the posts, especially the "rights without responsibility". But I'll reserve comment for now.

    H2O, please do ask your contact about this. While I hope it doesn't happen again ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by salad View Post
    However whether cyclists are actually aware of the road rules is unpredictable, since they do not require any examination or licensing, nor am I certain if this is a "rule" or a "recommendation".
    That's why I'm here, it isn't a "rule" per se, it is simply a recommendation from the MTO.

    Quote Originally Posted by salad View Post
    This very much sounds like it was written for vehicles that occupy an entire lane - for instance, a bicycle will not collide with a vehicle in front of them it is being ridden on the shoulder, because there is no vehicle in front of it, therefore it cannot overtake a vehicle which is already beside it - so I do not think it applies.
    This very much applies. A bicycle is a "vehicle" under the Highway Traffic Act.

    Quote Originally Posted by salad View Post
    Now a real question to keep it technically on topic - are drivers required to perform a shoulder check when changing lanes? These days a prospective driver will fail their DriveTest G1 or G2 road exam if they fail to check all applicable blind spots before changing lanes, but I believe some things they check for are not directly HTA requirements, such as how you grip the steering wheel.
    While it may be a requirement to pass your driver's licence exam, it is not required specifically that you do a shoulder check under the HTA. You ARE however, required to make any lane changes safely!
    Last edited by ON OFFroad; 04-29-2013 at 08:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noltz View Post
    Thank you for your time.
    As always it's a pleasure.




    A quick reminder to those who wish to discuss/debate this topic..... PLEASE create a thread in the "off topic" forum.....

    Thanks again!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ON OFFroad View Post
    That's why I'm here, it isn't a "rule" per se, it is simply a recommendation from the MTO.

    This very much applies. A bicycle is a "vehicle" under the Highway Traffic Act.
    Ah yes... but shoulders aren't lanes of their own, correct? I hope you don't see this as nitpicking, and it is not my intent to argue, but as I read it, if a bicycle was a vehicle that must move to the left when overtaking, this would apply to any time a bicycle was ridden on the shoulder, and not just around turns, so any time a bicycle traveled faster than a vehicle to its left would be an offense if not alone in a full lane or designated bicycle lane, eg. riding on the shoulder and passing stopped cars while approaching a red light

    Quote Originally Posted by ON OFFroad View Post
    While it may be a requirement to pass your driver's licence exam, it is not required specifically that you do a shoulder check under the HTA. You ARE however, required to make any lane changes safely!
    Is there such an offense as an unsafe lane change? How can an officer determine what constitutes "unsafe" if something as significant as checking a vehicle's blind spots is not required? Or is it simply implied with a line like "check that you won't crash into anything"?




    EDIT: If you feel this is not appropriate please remove, I'm hoping it is still relevant since I am asking questions pertaining to the original topic
    Last edited by salad; 04-29-2013 at 08:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by salad View Post
    Ah yes... but shoulders aren't lanes of their own, correct? I hope you don't see this as nitpicking, and it is not my intent to argue, but as I read it, if a bicycle was a vehicle that must move to the left when overtaking, this would apply to any time a bicycle was ridden on the shoulder, and not just around turns, so any time a bicycle traveled faster than a vehicle to its left would be an offense if not alone in a full lane or designated bicycle lane, eg. riding on the shoulder and passing stopped cars while approaching a red light
    Technically yes, it would be an offence. Do you drive your car on the shoulder to pass stopped vehicles? Again, I'm no expert on this, but this is my interpretation. I don't imagine there are a lot of offence notices written for this scenario however, where bicycles are involved. Just remember, EVERYWHERE in the HTA where it describes a "vehicle" instead of a "motor vehicle", it includes a bicycle!



    Quote Originally Posted by salad View Post
    Is there such an offense as an unsafe lane change? How can an officer determine what constitutes "unsafe" if something as significant as checking a vehicle's blind spots is not required? Or is it simply implied with a line like "check that you won't crash into anything"?
    Yes, there is an offence of "unsafe lane change"

    142. (1) The driver or operator of a vehicle upon a highway before turning to the left or right at any intersection or into a private road or driveway or from one lane for traffic to another lane for traffic or to leave the roadway shall first see that the movement can be made in safety, and if the operation of any other vehicle may be affected by the movement shall give a signal plainly visible to the driver or operator of the other vehicle of the intention to make the movement. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 142 (1).

    There is a lot to do as a driver, and definitely one of those things to be prudent, would be to do a shoulder check before changing lanes. The Officer would have to determine if the driver did not do everything they could have to avoid this happening.

    I'm not sure how much more explicit I can be with this.....

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    Thread closed...people can't seem to clue in to what the officer is saying...so I will help out here...



    I have created a new thread for the discussion of this topic because it seems like so many people want to discuss it...find the discussion thread here

    http://www.jeepkings.ca/forums/showt...CUSSION-THREAD

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