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Thread: Power Steering Reservoir Question

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    Power Steering Reservoir Question

    I'm running a V8 WJ power steering pump and reservoir and having high return line pressure issues.

    My setup includes an under sized pulley (to get more flow, a PSC assist ram, cooler, and filter that's good for 10GPM with a 25psi blow by valve. But I'm seeing upwards of 80psi at the filter head at higher RPM's.

    The V8 WJ reservoir attaches straight to the pump like the TJ but has a larger capacity and 2 return ports because a V8 WJ uses a hydraulicly driven auxiliary fan. I'm us in the larger of the 2 and using 1/2 hose from the filter head to the reservoir.

    I would be against running an aftermarket reservoir but I don't know how to connect it to the pump since the one that's on it is direct connect.

    Would another possibility be to piggy back a second reservoir in series or parallel?

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    Are you checking the return pressure with the cap on the reservoir? Does it change if you remove it? I can't think of what else could possibly cause excessive return pressure other than a cap not venting. Even then, I'm not sure how that would lead to pressures that high.
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    Where exactly in the system and how are you measuring the return line pressure? (pics would be helpful...)

    I would add a second "piggy back" reservoir. This would give the fluid time and a space to de-aerate and cool before going into the pump suction resevoir. Easy way to add more volume to the system too.

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    Power Steering Reservoir Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickybongsmoking View Post
    Are you checking the return pressure with the cap on the reservoir? Does it change if you remove it? I can't think of what else could possibly cause excessive return pressure other than a cap not venting. Even then, I'm not sure how that would lead to pressures that high.
    I never thought about the cap, but like you I can't see that being the issue. I would thing that 80psi would just blow the cap off or at least air by it.
    Quote Originally Posted by k5 View Post
    Where exactly in the system and how are you measuring the return line pressure? (pics would be helpful...)

    I would add a second "piggy back" reservoir. This would give the fluid time and a space to de-aerate and cool before going into the pump suction resevoir. Easy way to add more volume to the system too.
    I'll have to get you some pics when I get to my shop. I'm measuring the pressure going into the filter head with a gauge port that came in the filter head and the gauge that is meant to go with it.

    My only concern with a piggy back reservoir is that is wouldn't gravity feed from the first reservoir into the second one fast enough and the pump would suck the second one dry.

    I've got cooling covered, I'm using a trans cooler for my power steering that takes up over half my rad.

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    At them moment, it is less than clear how adding or changing the reservoir has anything to do with excessive return pressure.

    From the sounds of it, you are not measuring the pressure that is returning to the reservoir but rather, at a point upstream in the return before a filter. So, this is starting to make a little more sense. If you were to measure the pressure that is actually returning to the reservoir which is unobstructed from any other component, it should be at or close to zero psi.

    Without knowing anything about the filter assembly you are using, I would be highly skeptical of that filter being capable of meeting the flow requirement that the return line needs. Pressure is the result of a restriction to flow.

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    I already described the filter head. 10gpm rating, with a 25psi blow by valve incase of restriction in the filter. Therefore in order the get about the 25psi I'd have to be flowing more than 10gpm when psc pumps are only rated at like 4 or 4.5.

    You are correct, I haven't measured the return line after the filter ead yet, it was on my list of things to do. But with the gas tank out and me working on other things right now, I figured I'd get the ball rolling on this issue because it needs to be addressed before I head north in 2 weeks.

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    I don't know what kind of filter it is but it could be fuct up internally. Even if the element was fubar and it was hitting its 25 psi bypass, how much flow will the bypass actually accommodate? Hard to say. I'd be willing to bet that if you removed the filter assembly from the equation, the pressure issue would go away.

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    I stepped up from a 4pgm filter head and small filter to a 10gpm and larger filter to reduce restriction going through the filter material. I also made sure the pressure relief wasn't stuck and was mounted in the right direction. I also had this problem when using a small screen/magnet style filter too. So 3 different filter set ups and same problem.

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    Power Steering Reservoir Question

    Here are some pics.

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    Looks like a nice setup! Two questions:

    Are you actually having a performance problem (like high fluid temp, pump cavitation, loss of steering power), or do you just not like the 80psi filter inlet pressure?

    Do you have another screw on filter to try? Maybe that one is damaged or has too small of a micron rating to flow 10gpm of oil.
    Last edited by k5; 06-08-2017 at 09:46 AM.

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    Bonus Question:

    Is your filter assembly for gasoline/fuel or for an oil/hydraulic system?

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    Also, have you tried putting the gauge on the filter outlet? That will tell you where the backup is happening.
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    Power Steering Reservoir Question

    Quote Originally Posted by k5 View Post
    Looks like a nice setup! Two questions:

    Are you actually having a performance problem (like high fluid temp, pump cavitation, loss of steering power), or do you just not like the 80psi filter inlet pressure?

    Do you have another screw on filter to try? Maybe that one is damaged or has too small of a micron rating to flow 10gpm of oil.
    I've been plowing stuff apart. First was a spring clamp connection ( the spring clamp was weak so I didn't think much of it), then it was a cooler (rad style so I thought maybe I couldn't handle it so I went tube and find), next I blew apart a nylon reinforced return line. That's when I decided it was time to see what kind of pressures I was getting.

    That's when I switch from the small filter and filter head to this bigger one with the pressure relief valve. But a friend mine runs my exact old set up on his full hydro buggy no problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by k5 View Post
    Bonus Question:

    Is your filter assembly for gasoline/fuel or for an oil/hydraulic system?
    Filter and he are both meant for hydraulic systems.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drizit View Post
    Also, have you tried putting the gauge on the filter outlet? That will tell you where the backup is happening.
    That was my next step and I already bought a second gauge. But with time ticking (heading to Minden last week of this month) and the Jeep with no gas tank or axles in it, I've been trying to get on top of this issue during my time I'm not at the shop. Aka while I'm at work lol. Trying to multitask lol. That way I can attack this problem the best I can once I can.

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    80 psi does seem really high, I have a full psc cbr pump and the return pressure is nowhere near that high after leaving the steering box. Keep in mind on most steering pumps you can pull off the factory resevoir and thread a fitting directly into the pump. I did this years ago on a stock XJ pump. Do you have a cooler plumped in as well before your filter? You must have a restriction somewhere, pinched tube on the cooler, in my meager experience it is always something simple.
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    Not sure what kind of impact it would have but what did you do with the pressure outlet/bypass valve on the WJ pump?

    I'd assume you've read everything i did. Here's the best summary i suppose

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    I have no idea how it's plumbed but some WJ have a hydraulically driven cooling fan, perhaps this 80psi is the pressure needed by the fan? I would first remove the filter housing and check return line pressure unfiltered. It only makes sense to simplify system to rule out causes
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    Power Steering Reservoir Question

    Quote Originally Posted by jonzer12 View Post
    80 psi does seem really high, I have a full psc cbr pump and the return pressure is nowhere near that high after leaving the steering box. Keep in mind on most steering pumps you can pull off the factory resevoir and thread a fitting directly into the pump. I did this years ago on a stock XJ pump. Do you have a cooler plumped in as well before your filter? You must have a restriction somewhere, pinched tube on the cooler, in my meager experience it is always something simple.
    I have had a couple different coolers and currently have a brand new tube and fun style, I stated this already.
    Quote Originally Posted by Curt's_97 View Post
    Not sure what kind of impact it would have but what did you do with the pressure outlet/bypass valve on the WJ pump?

    I'd assume you've read everything i did. Here's the best summary i suppose

    http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f22/f...ml#post9545600
    Yes Curt, I did that right off the bat.
    Quote Originally Posted by jeremi View Post
    I have no idea how it's plumbed but some WJ have a hydraulically driven cooling fan, perhaps this 80psi is the pressure needed by the fan? I would first remove the filter housing and check return line pressure unfiltered. It only makes sense to simplify system to rule out causes
    Yes I am using the hydraulic fan return port because it is larger than the other port.

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    How's the steering feel? I had a similar situation happen, turned out to be a bad ram piston seal. Honestly dude simplify the system, just pump, box and reservoir with a gauge tee'd in at reservoir. Then start adding other systems to it one by one to see what's doing it.

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    Steering is excellent! Was sluggish at low rpm before I out the smaller pulley on it. But that was do to lack of flow when I clutched in to turn. My steering is super light, almost too light.

    I originally bight be the cooler because it was the rad style, then the return line pressure blew it apart so I went to a tube and fin style. The tube is 3/8" just like the line so it can't be a restriction. Then I upped the filter and filter head size over doubling their gpm rating, so I highly doughty it's them. It's gotta be that God damn reservoir but I just don't see how! Unless that funky round cap houses a pressure valve or some bullshit. I had one guy say using that port was giving him really bad cavitation and switching to the other port fixed it. But I haven't had cavitation issues. I get a slight whine at higher rpm but figure it's just because I'm over driving it so much. I went from a 5.5" pulley down to a 4.5".

    I need to get this damn thing running so I can start trouble shooting. But I'm really not looking forward to the power steering fluid mess that goes along with playing Lego with my power steering system...

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    Curious if maybe the fan return port has a valve or intentional restriction in it? That would be an easy test. Just a little PS fluid lol, I remember when I was trying to narrow mine down I was buying it by the gallon and almost immediately saturating kitty litter with it lol

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