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Thread: engine building

  1. #1
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    engine building

    I'm going to build a 350 SBC for my willys since I can't find any decent 4.3's I've rebuilt a few small engines and diesel tractor engines, but am new to the v8 engine building. I've got a 39700010 engine with 4 bolt mains and have stripped to down to the bare block, it's going for hot tank next week.
    So I want to build it to be very reliable, make a bit more power than stock and more torque. I've done lots of searching the net, but I can only find info about engines that make there power and torque above 4000 rpm and I will probably never have it above 3000-3500 rpm, but most of the time it will be in the 1500-2000 rpm range. Mostly just looking for suggestions on what pistons to run with what cam and what rockers etc. I am just going to use the stock heads and get them redone. Haven't decided if I will run a holley truck avenger carb or go to pro jection or similar. I know a few of you on here know a bit about engines, atleast alot more than I do

    TF post up your ideas
    79 GMC K2500 converted shortbox stepside K3500, 454 BBC, SM465l, Dana60/14b w 4.56,
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    Haven't decided if I will run a holley truck avenger carb or go to pro jection or similar
    I would stop rite there and strongly suggest just running a standard TBI...the rest is mostly personal taste
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    You will want to decide what method of fuel delivery you are going to use first, the proper cam for either Carb or FI will likely be different and make a big difference.

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    It's been a few years since I built my last SBC... Cam Choice is very important, as it will really setup the mix of HP to Torque... An agressive cam will tend to adjust your torque curve more like what you are looking for, i'd suggest calling up CRANE and speaking with them -- that's what I did, and they recommended something specific.

    I'd defiantly recommend losing the timing chain and going to gear drive


    TBI fixes many of the carb funnies, if you are no carb expert, go TBI (wish I had!) you will be glad you did.

    Consider porting and polishing the head, doesn't need to be expensive, you can do it yourself with a drill and a few tools, or get a shop to do it...

    As been mentioned, what rods/pistons/cam to use is personal choice. Is this a trail only rig? Plan on really bashing it? If you plan on really hammering it, Forged Rods might be a good idea.

    Get yourself a oil pan that's got baffles in it, something designed to run at many angles, I know Moroso makes a pan with these little trap door things to prevent slosh.
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    also if you plan on porting and polishing you if you have no knowlegde on how to do it or were to start DONT do it lol, you might think it looks good and all but it wont flow liek it should i would suggest taking the heads to someone else to redo-em if you plan on not getting new ones, tha or throw some cash towards some new vortecs there a good bang for the buck, and ya like grinthock said cam will do a big part on the build up....a buddy has a SBC 350 in his 1980 jimmy, and he has a torquer intake, 600cfm carb, 350/327HP cam rpm range i belive is 1800-3500rpm, and for pistons and what not all he did was slap some new high compression rings in, maybe even some pistons cant member, and he has 10.25:1 for compression, and he has the heads ported and polished ALOT!!! and the motor has enough snap to pull the front wheels off the ground in bull low (has the 465 tranny i think) but it has CRAZY amounts of torque to it.....the eniter build cost him like 150 bucks IF that LOL, but if ya liek ic ould get more info on the build of it if ya like lemme know if not i know a buddy that can design you a wicked motor for cheap my theory is dumbass with money can build a powerful motor, BUT it take a smarter guy to build it for less

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    sorry, I left out on my first post for fuel delivery a stock gm tbi. I have a caprice cop car throttle body (with larger injectors). I've done the stock tbi setup on my last jeep and it worked well. I've heard many good and bad things about the truck avenger, and I'm not good with carbs so I'm thinking I will stay with stock gm tbi. I have all the parts except the harness which I would get an aftermarket one this time anyways.
    A few guys have suggested longer rods on another forum, but from what I can find about the ratio between stroke and rod length is that the lower the ratio the more torque it will make at low end and accelerate better so I will be using stock 5.7" rods with arp bolts in them.
    I've also been told a few times to call crane when I'm ready for the cam.
    I wasn't planning on doing any porting as I have heard many horror stories about guys making more of a mess porting because they don't know what there doing. I will just go in and polish the casting marks out. The other forum also suggested getting 98+ vortec heads and run em stock.
    Are roller lifters and rockers worth the money?
    I was looking at the gear drive timing as I know how quickly the chains stretch, but have heard they make lots of noise. I don't mind noise, but I don't want it to make my engine sound like it's falling apart, so I haven't decided on that yet.
    Lots of decisions here for me to make here.

    is it worth getting it bored out to 4.030" even if it doesn't need it. It's stock bore now.

    It's not going to get beat on real hard, it will be used on some street driving, but not much, mostly just general trail riding and whatever rock climbing I can force it to do It will be driven hard, but not going to beat on it, I know when to stop.

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    can u get the cam from the cop motor too?? ifso yer a matched set for that tbi setup and the interceptor cam is a hi torque cam

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    is it worth finding a TPI setup, I've never dealt with one before, but I know they can be found between $200 and $500 jsut not sure it will make much of a difference.
    The TBI is so simple and I know them very well.

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    I could get the cam from it, but it had around 300000kms on it and don't think it would be much good It was a roller engine too.

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    well as for noise from timing gears, i have heard them and personally i LOVE the sound you get the right ones and they make ur motor sound like it is supercharged

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    the other problem I've heard with gear drive is that it will affect the knock sensor on the EFI setup. I guess I don't really need to keep the knock sensor with tbi though.

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    also timing gears dont last aslon and timing chains, just get a GOOD one, also maye think bout a double will hold better then a regular one

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    I was told the gears would last longer than the chain and be more reliable... Besides, it sounds AMAZING!


    Roller rockers are definatly a plus -- they provide lower friction and more low end torque..

    A TPI setup requires more sensors, more electronics and will be more headaches, but will definitely be better if you can get it up and running, most people i've seen in the past stay away simply because of the complications related to the computer, however in the last few years aftermarket computers are now available that make it easier. I was always told if you want to go TPI, then ensure you get the unit with the harness and computer. AND you need to be careful which one you get, some of those computers have anti theft crap, tranny controls, and other items, so just know what you are getting

    300K cam? why chance it, do it right and get a new one, if you REALLY want to keep it, have it machined and then checked.

    Call around about port/polish jobs at pro shops, if you have it done professionally you will not be sorry that's for sure...

    Unsure if you have planned this, but are you sending the crank for machining as well? I'm assuming you are...

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    I don't know enough to give accurate info on what to build but I do know what I don't like from my drag days.

    Personally I can't stand gear driven cams. The whine sounds cool for a couple of days, but beyond that it gets annoying quick.

    I prefer roller setups for dd's and rigs I don't have time to tinker with. Solid, imo gives you the opportunity to more fine tune adjustments and the ability to play with different settings.

    You could try a 'redneck F.I' setup, which I sure you know is nothing more then a reversed quadrajet. Cheap, simple and proven reliable.

    I dropped my 460 (D1VE Block\D3VE Heads) off at the machine shop to have it built. I had the same questions as you and the racing shop's response was "I'll build you a reliable motor for 550 HP and we'll grind you a cam for the torque you want."

    This coming from a guy who set a few Super Stock records with the NHRA in the '90's.

    I'm doing the tear down and build, he's doing the machining and supplying total kit for 1000.00.
    Last edited by shawnm; 12-04-2006 at 12:22 AM.
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    seems lots of people know how to build racing engines, but I'm not going to race a 52 Willy's jeep

    I have decided to run vortec heads and swap in some screw in studs since it has been recommended by many people http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56505 and because there are only 2 years of TPI that are easy to work with and hard to find I am going to stick with my caprice TBI.
    Going to use a good roller timing chain, stock crank (reground) and stock rods with arp bolts, I need to figure out what pistons to use (keeping a low compression ratio around 9:1 with the 67cc vortec heads) then I will call to get a cam spec'd for the engine. First I need to get it cleaned, and see what machining needs done.

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    Glad you have a plan! That's definatly the best place to start.

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    most kits I see offer hypernematic (sp?) pistons or forged pistons. Whats the difference and why should I get one or the other?

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    Forged is better... WAY stronger... Put it this way, racers and performance engine builders use them.

    Not worth explaining, read this link, it explains it.

    http://www.aa1car.com/library/2005/eb60522.htm

    You may find forged pistons are $$$, but in my mind -- worth it.

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    Hyperutectic are cheaper than forged and an excellant choice for your build. Very little expansion and they can run at very tight clearances like .0015 . Dont pay too much attention to some advice that has been posted here by some people, porting and polishing cyl heads give absolutely no gains for tourque at low rpms, roller cams are free hp if your talking rpms, from what i read, its not what your after. Screw in studs are necessary for high valve spring pressures, which you dont have or need. Pay attention to ring seal,compression ratio and cam selection. Like i said, some people here are giving you advice,(no names mentioned) and have never built a motor in their life, seems that they give advice about anything that they know nothing about. cough, tool cough.
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    Originally posted by lowranger
    Hyperutectic are cheaper than forged and an excellant choice for your build. Very little expansion and they can run at very tight clearances like .0015 . Dont pay too much attention to some advice that has been posted here by some people, porting and polishing cyl heads give absolutely no gains for tourque at low rpms, roller cams are free hp if your talking rpms, from what i read, its not what your after. Screw in studs are necessary for high valve spring pressures, which you dont have or need. Pay attention to ring seal,compression ratio and cam selection. Like i said, some people here are giving you advice,(no names mentioned) and have never built a motor in their life, seems that they give advice about anything that they know nothing about. cough, tool cough.
    thought maybe you were talking bout me lol, was gonna say im no expert but i do have some knowledge in building motors.... everyone is always learning something new, and yes i agree cam, and compression make a huge difference in MY opinion

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