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Thread: 3 link idea.

  1. #21
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    Alright thanks guys 4 link it is!!

    hyprtech ill shoot you a pm sometime when i get all the steel and joints gatherd up to get it done, ide appreciate the help a lot

    Cheers

  2. #22
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    hey tuff, you could get the same flex outa a 3link you just need to design it better that that guy did. im sure you could make it work pretty good, iv seen some pretty wicked 3link setups on pirate
    love my 2.5

  3. #23
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    you can actually get more flex with a 3 link due to the 3 joint process. the upper joint has to be 2x the strength of the lowers. but the rear steer seperates the two. you cant avoid it with a 3 link.

    no problem helping you out. use 1/4" material for brackets and such and min 2" * 1/4" wall DOM for the links.
    Steve Rogers
    Crazy Bastard

  4. #24
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    Same amount of heims in a 4 and 3 with less to worry about in the 4. I'd do a 4. . Of course this is not taking in to consideration gas tank and exhaust.
    97 TJ - The Build
    77 J10 - Death Proof
    11 SRT Challenger with some stuff
    05 Duramax

  5. #25
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    I got no worries about tank or exhaust i just have a cherry bomb that ends beside the t-case.. no tail pipe and since my ZJ is chopped the tank is mounted in the back bed part now.. so i got TONS of room under there for stretching the wheel base and to stuff the axle up in

    I was planning on Polyperformance johnny joints and for the link was going to use 2"x2" 1/4" wall square tube with 1"x1" angle pointing downwards welded all the way down the lower links.. there is no way i will ever bend that my jeep isnt heavy enough....

    Thanks again guys your all really helpful

  6. #26
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    cant wait to see what you turn up with thats for sure build thread build thread build thread!

  7. #27
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    Ya haha i shoulda started a build thread a long time ago on my jeep when i picked it up in the summer. should show my front long arms and how i chopped it and instaling racing seats and front bumper and soon to be rear bumper and other little things it has like the rock rails and stuff...

    Maybe ill start a build thread for myself haha

  8. #28
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    lets do some reality vs fiction

    Reality: equally "correct" designed 3link and 4 link will flex amazing, generally a 3 link will flex better than a 4 because there is only one upper pivot point with no seperation between the two uppers like on a 4 link. This seperation creates a binding situation on the 4 link.

    Fiction:4 link is stronger than 3 link -- if engineered correctly they can be equal. but for the average person a 4 link will end up better. and creates a more stable ride due to the bind of the system.

    Reality : because 3 links pivot on one point they move very easily around that point and require more shock damping than a standard 4 link. otherwise the rest is practically equal.

    Reality: dual or twin triangulated 4 link is awesome and does not create flex steer, but you can twin triangulate a 3 link and get the same thing. If you have lower arms non triangulated and triangulated uppers arms, you will have flex steer.

    Pro: 4 link has 4 independent arms so if one fails(bends) it is easy to replace, but usually it takes out the system . 4 link has 2 mount points on the top of the pig, so both have to rip off, stronger is relative, if designed right.......blah blah.

    con: 3 link has only one upper mount to rip off. 3 link has one big upper arm(read: harder to replace on trail)

    Anti squat and brake dive are dependent on link angles and length, it does not matter if it is a 4 link or a 3 link. They are dependent on a trailing arm set up, like a 4 link, 3 link, mcpherson rear trailing arm with panhard rod......etc.

    i'll come up with more later

    Bradford

    My choice is twin triangulated 4 link, but it is the most complex
    95 ZJ 5.2L, Custom long arm 4 link Rear 3 link panhard front. D44/9" 4.88's locked and spooled,37x12.5 MTRs, 1 ton steering, Currently bumperless but rolling.

  9. #29
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    very well put.

  10. #30
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    So it seems double triangulated is the best one to go with for strength and reliablility and have lots of flex but its also the hardest to design and build.

    i guess ill dont a bunch on searches on the doulbe triangulated and keep you guys posted as i go.

    My understanding of it so far is the upper arms should be parrallel with the ground and the lowers shoudl angle down towards the ground and i correct on that or way off??

    pinion angle isnt such a big issue because there will be liek 4" of adjustablilty in the rod ends to set that in the end. also the length of the arms comes in to play as i read some where. ill snoop around see what info i can cram in my head

    Thanks for all the input guys appreciate it lots

    Cheers Steve

  11. #31
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    HMMMmmm

    so just a quick question is there anygood reference books on this sort of thing, i mean how to calculate angles, and lengths ect... i mean there are a ton ofonline resourses but i really like a good book to sit and read as a reference. never know whos posting from experience, and knowledge and whos spouting shi.. if anyone knows some let me NICK PS i have no idea if 3 0r 4 link, i like 4 but have no experience with 3

  12. #32
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    fundimentals of vehicle dynamics, herb adams race car chassis engineering,
    are good books and the ones I used. If you want to do it without any guess work, a good 3d cad program is needed for designing, knowledge in strength of material, and vehicle dynamics is needed, and a piss load of time. check out pirate for lots of good info as well.

  13. #33
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    couple things i'd like to add:

    1) technically the sample shown is trussed, that is what the 3rd link is mounted too. It's just a very poor booty fab setup (learn from his mistakes)

    2) 88xj made a good point about the lower links below the axle. Move the lower link axle bracket up 3" or so on the axle so that your aren't smacking your joints on rocks

    3) poly performance sells CURRIE JJ's. I recently bought Currie Joints through rockspider 4x4 (Jim) In Markham. I was impressed with the customer service,knowledge and the price was fair. Didnt get fawked with duty either. Make sure you buy forged shank, zinc plated joints for strength and to avoid corrosion of the threads

    4) Based on the pic the jamb nut on the upper link would be used to lock the threads, limiting the flex of the upper link to the flex in the joint. JKS has manufactured a live flex threaded end, but they are very intricate, precisely machined arms. Leaving a joint with live threads like that will get worn to shit very quickly.

    5) I asked a well versed ZJ wheeler on mallcrawlin what he thought of his properly built 3 link vs triangulated 4 link, here is what he said:

    "I can't complain too much about the 3 link. It is actually a beaten and butchered Kevin's 3 link, with a different truss of course. I haven't run the numbers on it for the AS and other suspension dynamics but I'd like to know what they are because it climbs ledges very well. I didn't get much flex out of it, but I think that was a swaybar and shock length problem. Both of those issues will be corrected now. Hopefully the rig is going to end up lower too"

    this was once a ZJ lol, as discussed above:


    6) one last thing, search a suspension calculator, read and learn about anti-squat, brake dive, body roll and flex steer before you make some big mistakes, learning the hard way is good experience, but do some design and math before you start to save time, money and end up with a functional suspension
    CRAIG-3D CAD junkie-IMAX Screen designer


    -97 ZJ #2 LTD...built,flogged & flopped all in a matter of 7 days..redefining luxury wheelin! 97 ZJ Laredo, hand built, abused, and jumped off a 12' snowbank... RIP

  14. #34
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    agreed.

  15. #35
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    great info in this thread. thanks a lot guys.

  16. #36
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    If you want, you can have a look at my double triangulated stretched long arm on my TJ with 60's. It's on a 99TJ. A full Clayton Long Arm system, I researched Pirate and building a setup myself for awhile, before I went with their setup. Yep it costs more than doing it yourself, but their design is proven and I didn't have the shop time to build my own setup, and all the trial and error to go with it. No links hang below the axle, all 1/4" brackets at axle and frames and all square tube links. Road manners are good, and offroad flex is great.
    If I remember right from talking to others on Pirate trying to do a double triangulated 4 link on XJ/ZJ and keeping the vehicle as low as possible, the 4-link calculater would put the frame links up inside the body. Can't remember what all was said about that now. Would have to go back through all those threads I saved on there.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Jeep Build 166.jpg   Jeep Build 143.jpg  
    99 TJ - with some junk
    OF4WD #4994

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