Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 41 to 54 of 54

Thread: DMV visit, asked some questions...

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ottawa
    Posts
    203
    Time Online: 2 Hrs 8 Mins 25 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: N/A
    Rep Power
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by BadCompany View Post
    ok i called again more clear this time

    on the side of the door of the truck if the rgw is over 4500kg you need a sticker on the truck.

    as for the trailer no sticker.
    even when there hooked togeather because its less that 2800kg combined trailer and load.

    thanks mud dawg.

    awsome the door of my truck says 8800lbs/3992kg.=no sticker yea!
    Sorry, but whoever you talked to gave you bad info. That would be the case if your trailer was a travel (camper) trailer, but it's not. Also, the light duty trailer exemption is for the registered GVW on your truck plates only, it does not apply to annual inspections. Just read the first sentence of that MTO webpage.

    I've been researching this the last few years and although it's not all super clear, if you want to make sure you're legal you'll need the inspection stickers on both the truck and trailer, but don't need to do annual inspections, limit daily hours of driving, or keep a CVOR.

    If your trailer clearly meets the light duty trailer weighing method then you can try having a lower registered weight allowance on your truck plates, but even that law is up to interpretation since your trailer would be registered and thus capable to carry the maximum weight and you may need to have plates that allow the maximum. It all drives you to

    Here's a recent thread on the OVO site.

    Depot had a good thread too, I think on Zooklounge, but that was before the personnal use exemption came into effect.

    Anyways, all I can say is good luck to anyone that gets stopped by an MTO officer, if they want to be a prick they'll find something wrong

    Richard

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ottawa
    Posts
    203
    Time Online: 2 Hrs 8 Mins 25 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: N/A
    Rep Power
    14
    Here's the MTO page on annual inspections:
    http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/tru...s/annual.shtml

    At the top is states that stickers are required
    2. on both the truck and the towed trailer if:
    -the truck's actual weight, registered gross weight or gross vehicle weight rating exceeds 4,500 kilograms, or
    -the actual weight of the truck, when added to the actual weight of the towed trailer or trailers exceeds 4,500 kilograms, or
    -the gross vehicle weight rating of the truck, when added to the gross vehicle weight rating of the towed trailer or trailers exceeds 4,500 kilograms.

    The third bullet applies to us, our trailers (unless it's a home built) will have a GVWR and when added to the trucks GVWR will be above 4,500kgs.

    They do talk about the light duty trailers on this page, but again they say it's to determine how much you pay for truck plates.

    Richard

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Burlington
    Posts
    5,009
    Time Online: 1 Mth 3 Wks 5 Days 8 Hrs 29 Mins 23 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 4 Mins 37 Secs
    Rep Power
    18
    I made another set of phone calls to the MOT Enforcement Office today, to clear all this up. I am waiting for a call-back on some of the flat-towing questions, but these are the people that will actually pull you over for violations. For anyone who'd like to voice their own inquiry about their specific setup, the Hamilton MOT Enforcement office can be reached at 905-643-7947, ex. 5.
    ____________________________________

    Hi there. I'm calling on behalf of an off-road vehicle owners group about towing our vehicles to and from events & trail heads. The off-road vehicles are usually modified Jeeps. Some are still street legal, but some have modifications that prohibit their use on public roads. The tow vehicles are all full size pickups or SUV's with V8 engines. Can I get some particulars from you?

    Sure, what's your questions?

    General Towing;
    With a proper truck, what is the maximum trailer & cargo weight I can legally tow on a G license?
    4600kg combined is the maximum legal weight that may be towed with a Class G license. Above that would require a Class A.

    What is the maximum combined weight allowed for the towing truck, trailer and Jeep, again on a G license?
    11,000kg combined. You'll find that on the back of your Drivers license, actually.


    Flat Towing;
    Does the truck being towed need regular insurance?
    No.

    Does it need to be plated?
    No plates. An "In Tow" sign is common however.

    At what weight must it be equipped with surge or electric brakes?
    Anything being towed that's more 1360kg must have brakes.

    Towing with Dollies;
    Do 2 wheel dollies need license plates?
    No.

    Does the Jeep need license plates?
    No.

    Does the Jeep need insurance?
    No, but your towed vehicle will probably not be covered by your standard automobile policy. Call your insurance agent about that. But from the MOT standpoint, we don't care. Dollies considered implements or devices, not trailers.

    What is the maximum weight we can tow on a two wheel dolly without it having trailer brakes?
    Same as before. When a trailer or a loaded implement exceed 1360kg (3000lbs), the trailer shall be equipped with brakes adequate to stop and hold the vehicle.

    Vehicle? Or trail...

    (Interrupting) Just whatever you're towing. That does seem to be a wording error, but the spirit of the law is that the loaded trailer will not transfer excessive forces to the vehicles service brakes, but instead will slow itself.

    Full-size, drive-on flatbed trailers;
    Do personal car trailers need annual inspections or plate stickers?
    Again, anything over 4500 kg Manufacturer GVW or the Actual weight will require annual inspections.

    What do you mean, anything?
    It applies to the vehicle too. If the truck that's towing has a Manufacturers GVWR of 4500kg or higher, such as some HD dualies, you ARE subject to annual inspections. Personal use or not - you must have it inspected annually, and a special sticker is attached to your plate. Are the trailers commercial or home built?

    Some trailers are home built, but most are bought. They're all very heavy duty, and have all been inspected at one point for their initial plates by MOT licensed garages. They all have surge or electric brakes.

    If commercial, the same rules apply. If the manufacturer has attached a placard stating a GVWR of 4500kg, that trailer must be inspected annually. If home made, the actual weight of the combined trailer and load cannot exceed 4500kg without annual inspection stickers.


    Can I re-register my trailer or truck if it's over this weight so that I do not need inspection stickers annually?

    There's 3 weights we consider; the Actual weight, the Manufactured GVWR, and your registered weight. The actual weight is what the trailer weighs right now, at the inspection station. If you're overweight on the trailer, you can move some stuff onto the truck, assuming it's not overloaded too. The GVWR is for commercially made trailers. This number cannot be changed. If you or your group is planning to purchase a trailer for recreational use, ensure it's not rated for more than 4500kg. Then there's the registered weight, but that has no effect on inspection requirements. GVWR & Actual weight. You cannot change the GVWR of a vehicle or trailer.

    With a proper surge or electric brake system, what is the legal maximum total weight of a flat trailer and it's load?
    Maximum weight that may be towed is 4600kgs on a class G. Maximum for the whole vehicle is 11,000kg.

    Perfect. That's all of them

    No problem.
    ____________________________________


    So in all, some of the info I got from the DMV was incorrect from the enforcement side of things but the rules are fairly clear.
    Last edited by Noltz; 06-17-2009 at 04:38 PM. Reason: Officer called back, missing information entered.
    ....-Noltz
    '91 Frankenheep Edition. 4.0, 4" BDS, Richmond 8.8, 35" KM2's, Titan 12k, ... gone.
    '95 4Runner SR5. Air-Lift bags, OBA & 8K Winch, DD... gone.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Willy's Wrenchville....Belmont,Ont
    Posts
    2,383
    Time Online: 1 Wk 2 Days 1 Hr 50 Mins 8 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 44 Secs
    Rep Power
    18
    Thanks Noltz ,

    All of your time spent and efforts ,no doubt , have clarified many beliefs [and many opinions] here ....and self admittedly mine as well.. ;& will no doubt aid in safer ,more educated towing.

    That has to be the best info, knowledge I have personally ever seen on any forum to date.....

    -had me running around checking tags, vehicle stickers inside the doors/glovebox - plus online searching weights on our dolly, our car trailer trailer, checking towbars for readiness,etc......

    Thanks a million man
    2-'52 M38 Cdn's , & a 3rd M38Cdn[ in parts],restored pasture green VEC '46 column Cj2a w/PTO,buzz saw,Resto-Mod CJ3A, \and other publically judged eyesore junk .

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Exeter, Ontario
    Posts
    2,937
    Time Online: 2 Mths 1 Wk 2 Days 14 Hrs 25 Mins 39 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 5 Mins 43 Secs
    Rep Power
    13
    Thanks Noltz. Although one can find that elsewere, it's much appreicated that you took the effort to call and ask!!!
    90 YJ. 4link F/R, 16" SAW Airshocks, 32bolt Beadlocks, D60/14bolt, Full Hydro/Hydroboost L67 3.8SC 700r4 NP231/D300
    02 Yukon XL on 37's DD
    91 Cherokee Juggy scrapped for Greener Grass
    I prefer to build it and not buy it, you see it, I probably made it.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Mississauga
    Posts
    171
    Time Online: 7 Hrs 8 Mins 54 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 1 Secs
    Rep Power
    14
    Again, here is the bureaucracy (grown 40% under McSquinty) in Ontario at work. Who can explain why if you put 2 wheels up on a dolly, the car doesn`t need to be insured or plated but if you flat tow (4 wheels on ground), the car needs to be insured and plated. In both cases the vehicle isn`t running independently. After that, if you can explain the MTO logic to me why a car gets the sticker on the back plate but a pickup has to have its sticker on the front then you`ll convince me that I`m wrong and the rules are fine...but I wish you luck because we all know THERE IS NO COMMON SENSE BEHIND ANY OF IT!!!

    Sorry for the rant but I hate the MTO and the government.
    Steve

    1999 TJ 4.0L, RE Superflex 4.5", 35" ProComp MTs, SYE, Warn Bumpers and rack, TJ Dana 44 w/ Detroit

    1990 YJ 2,5L, 4" spring lift, 32" Goodrich MTs, Rancho shocks, 2 inch shackle and body lift, Dana 35 Loc-rite Locker
    _________________________
    Where you want this killin' done
    Out on Highway 61

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Elmvale, ON
    Posts
    6,201
    Time Online: 17 Hrs 58 Mins 52 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 3 Secs
    Rep Power
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by GI Jeep View Post
    Who can explain why if you put 2 wheels up on a dolly, the car doesn`t need to be insured or plated but if you flat tow (4 wheels on ground), the car needs to be insured and plated.
    Did you read what Noltz posted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noltz
    Flat Towing;
    Does the truck being towed need regular insurance?
    No.
    Does it need to be plated?
    No plates. An "In Tow" sign is common however.
    At what weight must it be equipped with surge or electric brakes?
    Anything being towed that's more 1360kg must have brakes.
    Towing with Dollies;
    Do 2 wheel dollies need license plates?
    No.
    Does the Jeep need license plates?
    No.
    Does the Jeep need insurance?
    No, but your towed vehicle will probably not be covered by your standard automobile policy. Call your insurance agent about that. But from the MOT standpoint, we don't care. Dollies considered implements or devices, not trailers.
    Keepn' the Rubber Side down.

    '06 TJ | 2 headlights | broken cheap ass fogs | 30 lbs of mud in frame | undersized spare | dented fender | dented rear quarter | Stainless washers on license plate | softdoors with broken handles | Three black box thingies that look expensive | rusty hitch | lots more payments

    I Support OF4WD

    Quote Originally Posted by biohazard
    thank you i needed a new sig

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Mississauga
    Posts
    171
    Time Online: 7 Hrs 8 Mins 54 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 1 Secs
    Rep Power
    14
    Thanks, I see the correct information is posted down on page 3 where Noltz called the MOT directly. I only read the first post. My buddy didn't believe me when I told him. For a sticky thread people usually read the first post. Maybe Noltz could edit it and put a warning to read the third page.

    This is actually critical information for me because I need to flat tow my YJ for 6 hours to my property up north. I didn't want to insure it if I didn't have to so this helps. This doesn't change my opinion of the Govt and MTO though. It shows how misinformed the people who work in the offices are if he had to call the MTO directly. They don't even know their own regulations.
    Last edited by GI Jeep; 08-06-2009 at 09:53 AM.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Elmvale, ON
    Posts
    6,201
    Time Online: 17 Hrs 58 Mins 52 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 3 Secs
    Rep Power
    18
    lol, same thread.. just contradicting info... you know the gov't, why make it easy...

    from post 43

    Quote Originally Posted by Noltz
    I made another set of phone calls to the MOT Enforcement Office today, to clear all this up. I am waiting for a call-back on some of the flat-towing questions, but these are the people that will actually pull you over for violations. For anyone who'd like to voice their own inquiry about their specific setup, the Hamilton MOT Enforcement office can be reached at 905-643-7947, ex. 5.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Forest, Ont. 获利我的阴茎
    Posts
    13,670
    My Mood
    Grumpy
    Time Online: 4 Mths 2 Wks 1 Day 2 Mins 5 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 11 Mins 5 Secs
    Rep Power
    23
    Funny thing is, some ins companies say yes it does need to be reg'd and insured for flat tow....which again leads to confusion.

    Another point to ponder is if you do get pulled over and have substandard steering/balljoints/ weathercracked or bald tires/bad wheel bearings on the "Towed" vehicle, the MTO can and will treat it the same as a beat up and busted car trailer. That lil fact came strait from an MTO officer.
    Strength is nothing more than how well you hide the pain

    Yer hot, wet, and extremely satisfying. You always put a smile on my face and yer the first thing i want in my mouth when i wake up....aaaaaahhhhhh Coffee, my only friend.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Burlington
    Posts
    5,009
    Time Online: 1 Mth 3 Wks 5 Days 8 Hrs 29 Mins 23 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 4 Mins 37 Secs
    Rep Power
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by GI Jeep View Post
    ... Maybe Noltz could edit it and put a warning to read the third page.
    I did put a bright yellow link at the bottom; "Updated 6/17/09 - Click Here"
    Quote Originally Posted by MayhemInc View Post
    Funny thing is, some ins companies say yes it does need to be reg'd and insured for flat tow....which again leads to confusion.
    Well the insurance companies are not the ones who are pulling you over. They can tell you whatever they want - depends on your policy (and holder)
    Quote Originally Posted by MayhemInc View Post
    Another point to ponder is if you do get pulled over and have substandard steering/balljoints/ weathercracked or bald tires/bad wheel bearings on the "Towed" vehicle, the MTO can and will treat it the same as a beat up and busted car trailer. That lil fact came strait from an MTO officer.
    Well, if you drove a trailer with substandard bearings/cracked wheels/ etc. they'd take your trailer away too! If you wouldn't drive it, it shouldn't touch the road.
    Last edited by Noltz; 08-12-2009 at 11:51 PM.

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Beamsville Ont.
    Posts
    184
    Time Online: 1 Wk 4 Days 4 Hrs 31 Mins 8 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 55 Secs
    Rep Power
    13
    Thanks Noltz that's is what I was looking for and I think it cleared up a lot of questions . If your post from page 3 could be made a sticky that everyone saw it right up front it would save alote of questions. Thanks now I can get the plates for it.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Burlington
    Posts
    5,009
    Time Online: 1 Mth 3 Wks 5 Days 8 Hrs 29 Mins 23 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 4 Mins 37 Secs
    Rep Power
    18
    I amended the post again to direct people to the 3'rd page for the latest info.

    Please remember - this is only a guide. I strongly recommend that you contact your local police department and ask where they're doing their next safety check so you can have your vehicle inspected for conformity. I don't want to see/hear/read about anyone being ticketed or towed because of a bad setup. Cops are a lot more forgiving if you ask THEM what's legal, vs. "well my owners group says I can...". And when you do get it checked out, record the inspecting officers name and badge number. If there's an issue down the line, you'll have a record that proves you did everything you could to ensure you're safe and legal. It'd go a long way in court too, if you have to fight a ticket later.

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Hamilton
    Posts
    298
    My Mood
    Buzzed
    Time Online: 3 Wks 1 Day 2 Hrs 42 Mins 44 Secs
    Avg. Time Online: 1 Min 49 Secs
    Rep Power
    8
    Just a side note. Make sure your trailer is rated for the weight that your carrying and has brakes if the weight requires them. Most highway weight stations will help out for they are the ones enforcing the rules. In alberta all trailers must be made/welded by a certified welder and stamped.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •